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QUESTIONS BY A NON CALVINIST ANSWERED BY A CALVINIST
The following questions were taken from this website by Edwin Jardinel.
At the end of the page, there
is an acknowledgement: "These five excellent posts on Calvinism were
posted on the Baptist Debate list by: John Henry Baptist@udon.ksc.co.th
This web page composes of a
number of statements regarding the Calvinistic faith., followed by the
questions listed below. Some of these statements are accurate e.g. The
Calvinists have constantly affirmed their position "That man in his
natural state being dead in sins, is unable to recover himself by an
act of his own free will." Others of these statements are highly
inaccurate e.g. The Calvinist says "God will save the unbelieving elect
without the gospel" (I have already emailed the above address to see if
the writer can give any references to support this most amazing claim.)
For the sake of time, I have
omitted most of the statements - both accurate and outrageous - and
concentrated on the questions which are obviously designed to back up
some of the statements. I do make reference to some of the statements
especially in a couple of sections where the writer does not list the
questions as such, but intertwines them in statements. All the original
questions are included. They appear in black type. (My replies, as ever, appear bracketed in red)
As you will see, some questions were really two or three questions in
one, but I have kept with the original numbering. The headings belong
to the original website.
1. THE FALL OF MAN AND REGENERATION
1. Who is calling in Matt. 22:14?
(God is calling through the voice of the preacher)
If it is the preacher, why is it that there are those who responded through such call?
(Because it pleases God through the foolishness of the preacher's preaching to bring men to Himself.)
If it is God, how come that not all were chosen?
(Because God calls all men with a general call - only the elect receive the effectual call.)
Is there an equal number of the called and the chosen?
(Obviously not since the text indicates that the number chosen is less than the number called.)
2. How will Eph. 1:13 be explained? Which comes first, faith or the sealing of the Holy Spirit?
(Ephesians
1:13 relates to the assurance of salvation. Obviously a man cannot have
assurance without faith, but it is possible that he can have assurance
as soon as he believes.)
3. When does the Holy Spirit make the call to repent and believe in Jesus as Saviour, before regeneration or after?
(The Holy Spirit makes the call -
the questioner's distinction - to repent before regeneration. But only
the regenerated sinner will actually repent and believe in Jesus as
Saviour. An unregenerate man, although duty bound to repent and
believe, will not do so without the Spirit's power of regeneration)
4. Can the Holy Spirit
influence a depraved sinner (unregenerate) to repent and believe, or He
can only influence the regenerated?
(The word influence is left here
undefined and is so broad as to mean several things. The Holy Spirit
brings some depraved and unregenerate sinners under the word of God and
through the word of God regenerates them (James 1:18/1 Peter 1:23)
Evidence of this regeneration is repentance and faith.)
5. If the Holy Spirit cannot
influence the unregenerate being spiritually dead, to repent and
believe in Christ, how come the devil can still influence the
regenerated to sin? Is the devil more powerful than God?
(He does more than influence the
spiritually dead to repent and believe. He actually regenerates them
and so they both repent and believe through grace. This being
so…the preposition that He cannot influence the unregenerate is
a non starter. The devil can influence - tempt would be a scriptural
word - the regenerate to sin because God allows him to do so.
No…the devil is not more powerful than God. The Calvinistic
doctrine of the absolute sovereignty of God does not leave us open to
this kind of thought.)
6. Which comes first, forgiveness or repentance?
(Repentance.)
How will you explain the following passages: Isa. 55:7; Luke 13:3; II Chron. 7:14?
(The sinner is to forsake his
wicked way and the unrighteous man his (wicked) thoughts i.e. repent
before God will pardon him (Isaiah 55:6) Except the wicked repent, he
will perish in hell (Luke 13:3) Only after God's people humble
themselves, pray seeking God's face and repent, will God heal their
land.)
7. Which comes first, faith or forgiveness?
(Faith.)
Jn. 8:24; 5:24; Rom. 5:1; Acts 10:43. How will you explain such passages?
(Without faith, men will die in
their sins and go to hell (John 8:24) Without faith, men will not be
justified and it is only after faith is exercised are they accounted
righteous (Romans 5:1) Only after faith is exercised do men receive
remission for their sins (Acts 10:43)
8. If the Gospel is not
necessary in regeneration, how will you explain the passages-- Jn.5:24;
Rom.1:16; I Cor. 1:21; 15:1-4; II Thess. 2:14; James 1:18; Jam. 1:21; I
Peter 1:23; Eph. 1:13?
(The gospel is necessary in regeneration. Keeping strictly to the question, I don't need to explain the passages.)
2. ELECTION ACCORDING TO GOD'S PLEASURE
1. Were the elect already in Christ in eternity?
(In a sense - yes. We "were chosen
in Christ from before the foundation of the world" Ephesians 1:4 We
take this to mean that God decreed from eternity that we should be in
Christ.)
2. When did the elect obtain the new nature, in eternity or at the point of regeneration?
(The point of regeneration.)
If the elect obtained the new nature
at the point of regeneration, whose children were they before
regeneration, of God or of the Devil?
(We were children of the devil by
sin, although still chosen to be saved in Jesus Christ from before the
foundation of the world.)
Explain John 1:12; Eph. 2:3; Gal. 3:26; II Cor. 5:17.
(We did not become the children of
God until we received Christ as our Saviour, being born of God and so
enabled to do so (John 1:12-13) Our unsaved days saw us as children of
wrath, even as others i.e. under the condemnation of God for our sins
and needing a Saviour (Ephesians 2:3) Only those who have faith in
Christ can be considered children of God (Galatians 3:26) Only when we
were in Christ - actually regenerated in Him as opposed to being
"merely" chosen in Him - did old things pass away and all things become
new.)
3. How could the elect be in Christ in eternity since they have not existed yet in eternity?
(Our election in Christ from
eternity was in the eternal decree of God. Although decreed from
eternity, our being saved in Christ could not come to pass until we
first came into actual existence and then came by faith to Jesus
Christ. How do you think the Apostle Paul would react to this question.
if he were asked: How can we be chosen in Christ from before the
foundation of the world, since we were not there before the foundation
of the world? Hmmmmm!)
4.Were all elect justified already at the time of their physical birth?
(No)
If not when will they be justified?
(When they come by faith to Jesus Christ: Romans 5:1)
5. Is it God's pleasure that
some people will reject the truth? Is it God's will of pleasure that
some people will reject Christ and die in their sins? II Peter3:9; I
Tim. 2:3-4; Ezek. 33:11.
(Both these questions ask
practically the same thing. Scripture allows us to say only that while
God reveals himself as not being willing that any should perish, would
have all men to be saved and has no pleasure in the death of the wicked
- verses quoted - yet we cannot say that He has purposed to save every
last fallen son of Adam. No one can say differently, otherwise we have
a very frustrated God. It is significant when Jesus Christ upbraided
the non repentance of Capernaum and spoke of God hiding these things
from the wise and prudent and revealing them unto babes, He commented
"Even so, Father, for it seemed good in thy sight." (Matthew 11:20-27)
6. Are disobedient people doing God's will for them? Matt. 7:21.
(The description of disobedience
indicates their being outside the revealed will of God. They have
willingly chosen to disobey the commands to repent and believe etc.,
and will so be denied entrance to the Kingdom of Heaven.)
If so, what is God's will for them? I Tim. 2:3-4; II Peter 3:9.
(God has revealed to us - as above
- that He would have them to be saved and repent etc., Thankfully, He
does draw some of these disobedient ones to Himself and they become
obedient to the claims of the gospel. Evidently He does not savingly
draw them all and we are cast back upon the same observation as before
i.e. we cannot say that He has purposed to save every last fallen son
of Adam. The Bible reveals that those who die in their sin can only
blame themselves, perishing in their own corruption and falling by
their own transgression: 2 Peter 2:12/Acts 1:25 God was certainly under
no obligation to save any and therefore is under no obligation to save
all.)
3. CONDITIONAL SALVATION.
The Hyper-Calvinists believe in
unconditional election to unconditional salvation. By their Calvinistic
beliefs, they have ignored and violated too many passages in the
Scripture. We have discussed previously, that election is conditional.
This time I will show you that salvation is conditional. Below, are the
many passages which the hyper-Calvinists ignored and violated: (Long
list of salvation verses)
(Only one question appears under
this heading and is answered below. In this section, the writer makes a
statement about Hyper Calvinists, and then uses the word Calvinistic in
the same breath. There is, of course, a great fundamental difference
between Hyper Calvinism and Calvinism. It is my considered view that
any critique of these doctrines which cannot discern the difference
between a Hyper Calvinism and mainstream Calvinism is hardly worth
reading! I have no desire to associate with or defend Hyper Calvinists,
but I find it very strange that the writer should say that even Hyper
Calvinists believe in conditional salvation. Wherever else they err, I
have never seen a Hyper err on this particular point. Unless the writer
can prove otherwise, I would take this statement with a very generous
pinch of salt. One question appears in this section at the end of
Romans 10:13 being quoted. I give it in full…)
14. Rom. 10:13 -- "Whosoever
shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved". The Calvinists
believe they must be saved first before they can call upon the name of
the Lord. Do they call on the Lord for salvation?
(Calvinists emphatically do not
believe that they must be saved first before they can call upon the
name of the Lord. Calvinists believe that until they call upon the name
of the Lord , they are still lost and it is only by calling upon the
name of the Lord that they will be saved. Calvinists do believe that
they will not call upon the name of the Lord for salvation until they
are enabled to do so by the Spirit of God. No man can call Jesus Lord
but by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:3) Therefore, "Yes!" they do
call upon the name of the Lord for salvation.)
4. EXPLANATION OF DISPUTED PASSAGES
(In
this section the questions are not as clearly set out as in the first
two sections. The writer starts off with an erroneous statement i.e.
"John 1:13 The Calvinists believe that God saves a person apart from
his willingness." This is not so. We believe that God graciously renews
our corrupt wills and so makes us willing in the day of His power
(Psalm 110:3) No man was ever brought kicking and screaming to Christ.
John 1:13 is teaching us that man is unwilling in and of himself,
without the Spirit of God, to come to Christ.)
Rom. 9:16 -- It is true that
man is unwilling to come to God apart from divine grace. If man can
come willingly to God apart from God's grace and Christ's sacrificial
death, salvation is still impossible according to I Cor. 15:3-4, 14-17.
That's the point of this passage. But man under Divine influence can
exercise willingness to trust Christ to be saved. To whom does God
bestow greater grace? James 4:6 says, "God resisteth the proud but
giveth grace unto the humble." No one can question God if He wants to
bestow greater grace to save the humble.
(God gives grace unto the humble.
I'm not sure what point the writer is trying to make here. Certainly no
Calvinist questions God if He wants to bestow greater grace to save the
humble. In fact, Calvinists are not noted for their questioning of God
at all. If God wants to save some and not all…we don't question
Him either.)
John 6:37-39 -- The Calvinists
believe that all elect were given to Christ by the Father in eternity.
The questions they must answer are: Were all the elect already in
Christ in eternity?
(This question was posed above.
Forgive the cut and paste answer: In a sense - yes. We "were chosen in
Christ from before the foundation of the world" Ephesians 1:4 We take
this to mean that God decreed from eternity that we should be in
Christ.)
Did all the elect already possess a new nature in eternity?
(No.)
Were all elect already justified, forgiven, and children of God in eternity?
(No.)
Actually, a person is given to Christ
at the point he believes in Him. The word, "giveth" is in the present
tense. If it was in eternity that they were given to Christ, the verb
used should be in the past tense.
(Although not technically
a question, it should be pointed out that sinners were being chosen in
Christ from before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4) Just as
He is the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Revelation
13:8) This is something decreed from eternity, but sees its execution
in time.)
Only those who believe will come to God according to Heb. 11:6. John 6:39 tells us that Christ secures the believers.
(Amen.)
Matt. 1:21 -- Who are God's people?
(According to the decree of
God…all His elect. Those who have lived, are living and yet to
be born. Yet no man can view himself as one of God's people until he
actually comes to Christ.)
The Calvinists believe that the
elect were God's people since eternity. The questions are, Were they
already God's children in eternity?
(No. Although preordained to
become a child of God, and chosen eternally in Jesus Christ, we did not
become the children of God until we received Christ by faith: John
1:12)
Did Paul made a mistake when he said that the believers in Ephesus were in time past by nature children of wrath (Eph. 2:3)?
(No. Although the Ephesian
believers were chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world (1:4)
yet they were by nature children of wrath until they came to Christ for
salvation.)
Did St. Peter made a mistake
when he wrote to some believers and told them that in time past, they
were not God's people (I Peter 2:10)?
(No. Peter reminds the believers
that they were (in effect) among the Devil's crowd. This does not rule
them out from being preordained to eternal life which they received by
faith in Jesus Christ.)
God shall truly save "HIS PEOPLE" from the power and presence of sin in Christ's second coming (II Cor. 1:10).
(Technically not a question, but
since it concludes the section, it would be a shame to leave it out. We
concur with its truth.)
5. MISINTERPRETATION OF JOHN 3:16
1. Can a person reject something that which is not offered to him?
(A difficult question…for
both Calvinists and non Calvinists. I think now particularly of the
heathen who have never heard the gospel offer at all. Yet we know that
they are lost. Why are they damned? For sin. Creation leaves them
without an excuse (Romans 1:18-20) Their own conscience condemns them
(Romans 2:14-15) but some of them have never heard the gospel offer.
Perhaps suffice for us to know that it will be more tolerable for them
than for those places who do have the free, indiscriminate, offer of
the gospel extended to them. (Matthew 11:20-24) Whatever answer we
arrive at, it does not interfere with the mission of the church (Mark
16:15) to preach the gospel indiscriminately to every creature)
2. If Christ was not offered as Saviour to some people, how come they were able to reject Christ? John 12:47-48.
(The folk in John 12:47-48 had
Chris offered to them as Saviour as the context makes clear. Calvinists
- as opposed to Hyper Calvinists - believe that Christ is to be offered
to every man. We preach to, plead, dispute and reason etc., with men,
both elect and non elect, so that they will not reject Christ.)
3. Did Christ sincerely offer eternal life to the Jews who rejected Him? John 5:39-40.
(Yes.)
How can He offer salvation if they were not included in His atonement?
(Yes. The merits of Christ's blood
is sufficient to cleanse away the sins of the whole world and every
sinner may be assured that if he comes, he will be received and fully
cleansed. Viewing the atonement theologically, we have to conclude that
it was not the purpose of Christ to save those who were either then or
are now or will eventually be in hell. If it was…then He
signally failed.)
4. Did Christ sincerely want the people in Chorazin and Bethsaida to repent or He was just joking? Matt. 11:20-24.
(That God could have granted the
people in Chorazin and Bethsaida repentance is not disputed. That He
did not in His goodness lead them to repentance (Romans 2:4) is also
established. Suffice for us to know that they perished in their own
corruption. No…He was not joking as you put it.)
Why would He want them to repent if He thinks they cannot repent?
(God commands all men everywhere
to repent. This is consistent with His own holiness which loathes sin.
Although duty bound to repent - another fundamental place where
Calvinists and Hyper Calvinists disagree - yet the natural man is
unable because of his sin to repent. He is not stopped from repenting
by God, but simply left to his own chosen helplessness. God is under no
obligation to grant it to them and when He declined to do so in the
case of Chorazin and Bethsaida, the Saviour Himself fell back on the
thought of Him exercising His absolute sovereignty. Much as this is
unpalatable to the natural man, it is there clearly taught in the word
of God. Suffice for us to know that as for God, His ways are perfect
(Psalm 18:30) and that the Judge of all the earth will do right:
Genesis 18:25)
Why would He want them to repent if He is not offering salvation to them? II Cor. 7:9-10.
(If we are still considering the
case of Chorazin and Bethsaida, then they are required to repent
because they are sinners. Why He did not see fit to send preachers
offer them salvation is answered only by His sovereignty as above.)
5. Does God want some people to reject Christ?
(He has revealed Himself as One
who has no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezekiel 33:11) Christ
lamented over Jerusalem (Matthew 23:37) His angels rejoice over those
sinners who receive Christ and so should we (Luke 15) That He has not
purposed to save all and does not grant faith and repentance to all is
clear to be seen. I am most happy to extend the invitation to every
last creature and seek to see them receive the proffered gift of God.)
Why won't He cause all to believe in Christ?
(As above…because for reasons known to Himself…He has chosen to do otherwise.)
Is God pleased if others remain to be unbelievers? Ezek. 33:11
(The revealed will of God says
"No" i.e. Ezekiel 33:11. Yet His decretive will shows that He has
permitted some men to go their own chosen path of damnation. To ask we
to reconcile this with my puny little finite reason is to ask too much.)
These five excellent posts on Calvinism were posted on the Baptist Debate list by: John Henry Baptist@udon.ksc.co.th
(Final comment:
I enjoyed answering these questions. The questions were
excellent…unfortunately some of the statements were rather
bizarre. Any one who takes upon himself to attack Calvinism should at least be able to tell the difference between a Calvinist and a hyper Calvinist.)