JANUARY TO NOVEMBER
2006
Received 10-11-06 Hi Colin, I'm an IFB and I'm very thankful for your work in the
area of Calvinism, especially in regards to David Cloud and Dave Hunt. I'm
thankful for other aspects of these men's ministries, but you've done a good
job exposing their faulty and shallow argumentation when it comes to the
Doctrines of Grace. I still have trouble calling myself a "Calvinist" (it might
just be the stigma of being a dreaded "Calvinist" amongst IFBs!) but I'm seeing
that the Scriptures do teach the moral inability of man, the unconditional
election of God, and His overcoming grace in the heart of those He has chosen.
Praise God for His grace! And thank you for being faithful to the truth in these
areas, so He could use you as He has. God bless your evangelistic
efforts. Your friend, Joshua.
Hi Joshua. Thanks for your
note and appreciation of our work. Many people who are Calvinists do
not take the name and I have no problem with that. I just take it as a
matter of convenience and to save myself typing half a paragraph (like
I'm doing now!) I spent the first 2-3 years of my Calvinist experience
in an non Reformed Church. There were some other Calvinists, but the
church was overwhelmingly free will in its teaching, although not easy
believism. However when the Lord called me into Bible College among the
Free Presbyterians, then it was time for me move. Sooner or later your
Calvinistic beliefs are going to shine through. The secret is to be
firm but gracious in them. Defend rather than attack if your church
does not hold to them. Thanks for writing again. Colin.
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Received 8-11-06 Hi Colin, I am just after reading thru some of your website.
The site is excellent and the Calvinism stuff is particularly good. Anyway, I am writing to ask permission to put up
some of your stuff on my own blog from time to time (with the usual full
acknowledgment of where it came from). Wishing you and your family every
blessing, Yours from the Shankill, Ian Hall.
Hi Ian, Nice to hear from you. Go ahead and use what you want. That goes for anyone reading these lines, although do email us and let us know. It encourages us no end on this side of things. Colin.
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Received 31-10-06 I was on the oldtruth.com/Calvinism website and you
were offering bible studies on the sovereignty of God in salvation. When I went
to click on the link, Yahoo said the page you requested was not found. This is
the link on the oldtruth.com website: http://www.geocities.com/cfpchurch/calvinismstudyone.html Do you still have the studies available? If so,
where can find them. Thank you and God bless. Soli Deo Gloria! AAZ
Hi. Nice to hear from you and to
learn of your interest in our studies on the Sovereignty of God. We
have upgraded our site away from the freebie one we were using in
geocities. The page you are looking for is now found on: http://www.corkfpc.com/biblestudies1.html I trust that you find these studies helpful and encouraging to you. Thanks again for your note. Colin.
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Received 30-10-06 Hi Colin, Although I am not a Calvinist I was perusing your
interesting article at corkfpc.com about what approach anti-Calvinists should
take if they hope to be taken seriously by Calvinists. I too am disappointed
that there have not been as many thoughtful responses from anti-Calvinists for
which one might have hoped. To this end I recently completed a book that is just
getting up and going on amazon.com. It is called Hoodwinked and Happy?:
Evangelicals, Calvinism, and Why No One's Answering the Problem of Evil. It chiefly takes issue with the Calvinistic doctrine of absolute sovereignty, a
doctrine I myself once believed for a number of years. Given your current viewpoint I don't think you
would agree with much of what I say in the book. At the same time, I like to
think that it might challenge your thinking more than certain other
anti-Calvinistic books you have encountered. If you are interested at all in
purchasing a copy I could forward you an attachment on some particular point so
that you could get a feel for the text before spending any money on the book. I
trust you would feel you got your money's worth not if you agreed with the
content of the book, but felt that it offered an above average defense of its
position. Since Amazon takes 55% of the price it would be much cheaper to buy it
from me directly (about 40% less than online). I am hoping, at the least, to
provide you with the kind of difficult challenge that you like. Just let me
know if I can send you an attachment, and if you mention a particular point of
interest that coincides with some passage from my book, I will forward that
passage to you. Best, Daniel Gracely/ Glassboro, New Jersey
USA
Hi. Thanks Danile, for your email.
I always appreciate feedback, even if ultimately the correspondent
disagrees with me. Can you capsulate your main argument against our
position in a paragraph? I would be interested in seeing what you have
got to say. Colin.
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Sent 9-10-06 Dear Mr Cloud, I have answered your view made recently
that Evangelising Calvinists are the exception rather than the rule. It
is available on: http://www.corkfpc.com/exception.html Colin Maxwell.
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Received 4-10-06 Friend, I have some questions about Calvinism that I need answered as I am one that
wants to be saved. However, some things about Calvinism both perplex and trouble
me. I would like to ask some questions if you can spare the time to answer.
Thanks. KS, USA
Feel free to ask these questions,
but please do not send me more than one at a time :-) Things are pretty
busy here and I can't afford to sit for hours on this Web site. Have a
look first at our Calvinism Index page and see if your query is answered there. If not, drop me a line, but do remember the provisio above. Thanks for writing. Colin.
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Received 4-10-06 Pastor: Thanks so much. [Immediately below] That response helped a lot. I enjoy your site. DF. Glad to be of help to you.
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Received 3-10-06 Pastor: I guess I didn't make myself very clear. [See 2-10-06]
I'm not saying YOU or your site advocates salvation by works. I know
that. My question was HOW can a person KNOW with ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE
that he is regenerated, without waiting to die and find out then. The
pat answer of the Calvinist is you will endure to the end and if you
don't then you were NEVER saved in the first place. Surely there has to
be assurance about salvation BEFORE you die!
Hi
DF. Thanks again for your email on this important subject. I appreciate
your concerns and you taking the time to write.
You asked me to show you one verse in
the Bible that says someone is saved and they haven't performed good
works. I guess the thief on the Cross would be one, although I know you
can't make that normative for all.
I think the thief on the Cross did
pretty well in his straitened circumstances. He bore witness to the
Lordship of Christ, when the latter was hanging naked on a Cross,
forsaken by the religious establishment etc., He rebuked his companion
in his sins. I do not doubt that had he been allowed to live, then he
would have been a zealous Bible student and pillar in his local church
etc., However, I think we agree that this man is hardly the normative
for all. The absence of any other example from the host of NT
converts proves the point that once we are saved by grace
through
faith, then we show ourselves to be His workmanship created in Jesus
Christ unto good works (Ephesians 2:8-10) It is most unfortunate that
we
often quote vs8-9 on the way of salvation, but stop at the infallible evidence as outlined by v10.
I enjoy your site, but I struggle with the above issue. Unless you
could get a link to the Book of Life and click on "saved people," and
find your name there, I don't see any way to KNOW FOR CERTAIN you are
saved. Like I said, you might live a Christian life for years, and
years, and then in the last two or three years you go off the deep end
then die. So the Calvinists will say "well, the poor guy wasn't saved
in the first place." I find that answer no different than the Arminian
who says you can lose your salvation. Neither answer provides any type
of ASSURANCE. DF.
The Bible itself presents us with
two balancing truths. One: That if we believe i.e. trust explicitly in
Jesus Christ, then we are the present and eternal possessors of eternal
life. This enables Paul to say the things he did in 2 Timothy 1:12 "...for
I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep
that which I have committed unto him against that day." And again: "We are not of them who draw back unto perdition, but who beleive to the saving of the soul" (Hebrews 10:39) The balancing truth of this is that while we can have/enjoy such faith, we are not to presume. Hence Paul also said: Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. (1 Corinthians 10:12) Please
excuse the cut and paste method in these comments on this verse
from Calvin, but he sums it up so well:
12. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth. The Apostle concludes
from what goes before, that we must not glory in our beginnings or
progress, so as to resign ourselves to carelessness and
inactivity. For the Corinthians gloried in their condition in such
a way, that, forgetting their weakness, they fell into many crimes.
This was a false confidence of such a kind as the Prophets frequently
reprove in the Israelitish people. As, however, Papists wrest this
passage for the purpose of maintaining their impious doctrine
respecting faith, as having constantly doubt connected with it, let us observe that there are two kinds of assurance. The one is that which rests on the promises of God, because a pious conscience
feels assured that God will never be wanting to it; and, relying on
this unconquerable persuasion, triumphs boldly and intrepidly over Satan
and sin, and yet, nevertheless, keeping in mind its own infirmity,
casts itself upon God, and with carefulness and anxiety commits itself
to him. This kind of assurance is sacred, and is inseparable from
faith, as appears from many passages of Scripture, and
especially Romans 8:33. The other
arises from negligence, when men, puffed up with the gifts that they
have, give themselves no concern, as if they were beyond the reach of
danger, but rest satisfied with their condition. Hence it is that they
are exposed to all the assaults of Satan. This is the kind of assurance
which Paul would have the Corinthians to abandon, because he saw that
they were satisfied with themselves under the influence of a silly
conceit. He does not, however, exhort them to be always anxiously in
doubt as to the will of God, or to tremble from uncertainty as to their
salvation, as Papists dream. In short, let us bear in mind, that Paul
is here addressing persons who were puffed up with a base confidence in
the flesh, and represses that assurance which is grounded upon men
— not upon God. For after commending the Colossians for the
solidity or steadfastness of their faith,(Colossians 2:5,) he exhorts
them to be rooted in Christ, to remain firm, and to be built up and
confirmed in the faith. (Colossians 2:7.)
We may enjoy assurance of our salvation when we are continually looking to Christ as our Saviour. These are the means which God uses to that great end
i.e. the infallible salvation of His own elect. How do I know I am
elect (or to use the Scriptural phrase) How can I make my calling and
election sure? Answer: By trusting Christ explicitly for my salvation
and look unto Him each and every day, ever confessing my sins and
failings to Him and actively renouncing any dependence upon my self. It
is only as I do this that I can enjoy assurance of salvation. If I am
not looking to Christ and doing these things, I have no right to take any comfort from the word of God. If this creates a doubt, then it is a needful
doubt and should serve to bring me up to that place where faith can
enjoy assurance, because it is directed to the right target i.e. Christ
alone. This is the scriptural balance that both assures and yet
keeps us on our toes. I trust this helps. Colin.
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Received 3-10-06 Thank you. Since I posted your article, [See 2-10-06] I received this email below.... (Josh)
Josh...thanks again for writing.
Rather than clutter up this page with the email you refer to, I have
moved to give it a page of its own, which may be accessed here. Colin.
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Received 2-10-06 Hello! I am Josh Rittenhouse from Lancaster, PA. I run a blog www.bloodtippedears.blogspot.com Would you allow me to post your excellent article "Once saved...always
saved???" on my site for my readers? Thank you either way! Josh
Hi Josh, Sorry
for the delay in reply. I was away for a few days evangelising at a
huge agricultural event. I see you have gone ahead with posting
the above article.
I am happy that you have done so. It is an interesting email to
get especially in light of the email immediately below this one which
was also waiting me in my inbox when I got home. I was up in Lancaster,
PA about 12 years ago - I stayed in Newtownsquare for a few days.
Thanks for writing. Colin
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Received 2-10-06 Pastor Colin: This is
not to argue with you since I consider myself a 5-point Calvinists, for
lack of a better term. But the question I have is how can a person KNOW
ABSOLUTELY that they are saved? I have not found a good answer to that
yet, even in the Westminster Confession of Faith. You said on your site: Therefore
instead of "Once saved…always saved" it might be better if we
closed up a rather smug loophole which self deceived professors have
exploited and believe instead: "If saved…always saved." This
maintains the truth of the eternal security of the people of God while
leaving room for that vital examination which is urged upon us by the
Apostle Paul himself (2 Corinthians 13:5) Obviously no one is urging an
excessive introspection which (having got us to take our eyes of
Christ) would plunge us all into despair. But it is profitable to take
time to weigh ourselves in the balances of Scriptures and see if we are
really manifesting those evidences of the new birth (1 John) If we do
and we are…we will rejoice all the more in what Christ has
accomplished for us. Far better this, than to wake up in hell and
discover that our hope was that of the hypocrite which will perish (Job
8:13)
------------------------------------------------
Even you are saying IF you are saved, then. This is what I find
lacking. A person could go through 70 years but the year before he dies
have a divorce or some other tragic event, go off the deep end, sin
boldly, etc., and he would not be saved. This is no different than the
Arminians. You have the same result. That position almost is
CONDITIONING your salvation on your works. Ugh. That won't work.
And the pat answer of my Calvinists friends is, well IF you were saved,
THEN you will endure to the end, but there is no way to give assurance
to your salvation without depending on your works. That is
unacceptable. Why can't you take a scripture like John 6:47, take Jesus
promise for exactly what he says. He says you believe in me (and a
person KNOWS if he believes the promises of Jesus) and you HAVE eternal
life. Or John 5:24, or John 11:25-26 or the jailer asked what do I do
to be saved. Jesus didn't say, well go to class, learn theology, get
baptized, and live a life that produces fruit. No, all he said was
"Believe in me." It seems if you take those passages and about another
20 like it for just what they say, you can believe the promises, and
HAVE eternal life. And we agree, once you are saved you cannot lose
your salvation. Period.
I don't know why Calvinists, or Baptists for that matter, will not say
you cannot lose your salvation, without putting all these conditions on
it. I firmly believe that if you are truly regenerated you WILL produce
fruit, but how can that be a condition or evidence of being saved and
then still believe in FAITH ALONE. Faith Alone plus NOTHING? DF,
Colorado. "I tell you for certain that everyone who has faith in ME HAS
eternal life."--John 6:47
Hi, Thanks for your email. I appreciate you taking time to write. Nowhere, repeat nowhere, in any of our writings do we suggest that people are saved by works, either in totality or in part. Nowhere, repeat nowhere, do we suggest that people are kept by works, either in totality or in part. Salvation is by grace alone and
we are kept by the power of God through faith (1 Peter 1:5) However, we
do follow the Scripture when we say that works flow from saving faith
and if a man say that he has [saving] faith but no works, then his
faith is in vain. This is the whole argument of the Epistle of
James, especially chapter two. While we must not mingle justification
with sanctification, yet we cannot divorce them either. The one
(justification) leads to the other (sanctification) and the one
(sanctification) flows from the other (justification). If we mingle
them, we end up with popery; if we divorce them, then we end up with
antinominism and neither are acceptable to God. Show me anywhere in the
Bible where a man who professes to be saved but cannot produce the
fruit of that salvation (good works) has any right to say that he has
eternal life. I am taking the position here that tallys exactly with
every verse/passage in the Bible that warns of false and empty
professions. Thanks again foir writing. Colin.
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Received 3-7-06. Dear Brother Colin, I see that according to his speaking diary David Cloud is
anticipating a trip to Ireland shortly. I wonder if he will come and
visit yourself? Perhaps not. Also, I see that he has decided to print
[and self publish] his diatribe on Calvinism,
presumably the basis of his lecture he gave in the Baptist University
in Greenwood, Indiana, USA. It is rather sad that he seems to be
attempting to cause so much disharmony by his continual
anti-Calvinistic writings. I see he still insists in including
something called 'Quick Prayerism' and he keeps insisting that Iain
Murray's book is entitled, 'Spurgeon vs. the Hyper-Calvinists', rather
than 'Hyper-Calvinism'. Perhaps, I should attempt to challenge
him, as a fellow Baptist, though a Reformed Baptist, I hasten to add,
on the matter and see what his response would be. Yours in
Christ, DQ
Hi, Thanks for your email. Let's say I have no plans to ask him to come
this way :-) I have said enough about him and his supposed exposures of
Calvinism elsewhere. Challenge him, if you want, as a Reformed
Baptist - he doesn't do face to face debates which is a pity. If
any one does get to meet him face to face in such a situation, they
should ask him to supply proof for what he says. He falls pitifully
short in supplying it in his articles. I think he operates on the
principle of "Cloud says it...that settles it...I believe it ." Anyway, thanks again for your note. Colin.
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Received 25-6-06 Sir,
I thank the Lord for your ministry
of the gospel of grace. I am a young pastor (31) in Delaware, USA who believes
in the absolute sovereignty of God in salvation, the total inability of man to
accomplish anything meritorious (including faith) unto salvation by his own
power, and that the substitutionary atonement of our Lord is effectually applied
only to the elect whom God will graciously bring to saving faith in Jesus Christ
alone for salvation. The elect will never fully or finally fall from the
faith.
Having said this, I have for several
years now had a question about the atonement that seems to remove me from the
ranks of the common Reformed confession. This is troubling to me but I want
Scripture to be my authority. For the sake of the Lord’s Name and the sheep with
which I have been entrusted, I seek to understand and pray that I will be
corrected if I am in error.
Hi. I appreciate you
writing and your kind remarks about our ministry here. I do not set
myself up as a theologian and therefore can only share with you my
thoughts on the matter which you raise. However, I am happy to do so
and hopefully prove to be of help to you.
Question: Why should I believe that the
atonement had an inherent individual scope which limits its effect to the
elect? My understanding is that election limits the effect of an
all-sufficient atonement of sin to certain persons sovereignly chosen beforehand
by God, not anything intrinsic to the atonement itself. My concern is that the common
Reformed view of “limited atonement” seems to (1) negate the necessity of
individual election and (2) remains difficult to substantiate in Scripture (Is.
53:6; John 1:29; 1 Tim. 2:6; 4:10; 1 John 2:2). The common use of texts that
positively affirm the benefits of the atonement for God’s people (Rev. 1:5;
etc.) truly demonstrate that the atonement is the grounds for the application of
saving benefits of the elect (who in fact are saved) but I don’t think these
texts say anything that reduces the scope of the atonement itself even though
the non-elect are passed over and receive eternal
condemnation. I apologize for my lack of brevity.
I have yet to see the question approached in the literature the way I am
approaching it and few issues are as pressing on me as the proper articulation
of God’s mercies to His people. Soli Deo
Gloria. BR.
The atonement is set forth in Scripture as something DEFINITE
and not merely potential. Therefore Christ really did die for and actually did make
a full, absolute atonement for all for whom He so died. This is the
nature of the atonement. You cannot have an atonement which does not
actually atone. Now, if Christ made atonement for reprobates like Judas
or Pharaoh, then why are they being punished for their sins? Surely, He
made a definite atonement for them? If one would reply, "But they have not received this atonement by faith for themselves..."
(or words to this effect) we immediately reply, that this sin of
unbelief must also be atoned for, just as much as any other sin which
is said to be under the blood of Christ. Otherwise, Christ did not die
for nor make atonement for all their sins. This thought has led some to
say that the only sin men go to hell for is the sin of unbelief...a
thought we repudiate here.
But we may safely assert that Christ did not atone for this damning sin
of unbelief (hence it damns) and for that matter, none of their other
sins, otherwise they would not suffer for them either.
On
the matter of the "universal" texts quoted above, I need hardly remind
you that words like "all" and "world" etc., do not always mean "all without
exception" as any concordance will bear out. I do not see how the
Reformed view negates the necessity of individual election, if we view
the whole plan of salvation together. Again, although Calvinists both scripturally
and logically limit the extent of the atonement, we do not limit its merits
which are infinite, and therefore each and every sinner may confidently
apply, as invited to do so, for mercy for him. I trust this helps you.
Thanks again for writing. Colin.
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Received 31-5-06 I have just visited your web site for the first
time (found it by accident). I am a Methodist involved in weekly Bible study.
Last week the discussion centered around was Judas Iscariot preordained by God
to betray Jesus. Our teacher said that yes, he was. My problem is
with "preordained."I cannot believe that God, who cannot sin, would
preordain someone to specifically be born to betray his Son, thus committing a
sin against God. Judas subsequently killed himself in despair, thus
damning himself to Hell. While I do believe that God, being omniscient, knew
Judas would commit this heinous crime, I am having a difficult time believing
that God chose Judas for this very act. Our next study is this coming Monday. Can you
please help me to more fully understand what the Bible says about
this? With my sincere thanks for your
web-site. RH
Hi. Thank you for your email. It brings back memories to me of a Bible
study some of us younger ones had years ago when we decided to study
the Book of Acts (in order to be non controversial!) However, we came
up against Judas in the very first chapter (v25) and the burning
question then was, "Was Judas born to be damned?" I was new to the Calvinistic faith and I foolishly said "Yes!" but I would give a different and more mature and scriptural answer now. My answer now would be simply this: "Judas was born to glorify God and glorify Him forever - and he failed." This mightn't answer every last question on the subject, but then, neither does the Bible itself and we should be content with what God has chosen to reveal to us. Salvation is all of grace; damnation is all of sin. God
gets all the glory; man takes all the blame. Any interpretations of any
passage or any circumstance in the Bible that interferes with these
maxims is not a proper interpretation.
We must content ourselves to know that God can draw straight lines with
very crooked rulers. He can use sinful acts (of others) to further His
own righteous ends, without incurring their guilt. His doing so may be
considered righteous because the end of the act was righteous (In
Judas' case, it was ensure that Christ died upon the Cross to secure
redemption). The same act was most wicked on the part of Judas because
he had no righteous view in mind and delivered him up out of Satanic
hatred and spite. Therefore God gets all the glory; man takes all the blame.
You run into a illogical absurdity if you say that "God foreknew Judas would betray Jesus and so He ordained the event to happen."
If God forsaw it happening, then it was going to happen whether He
ordained it or not. Ultimately, Judas only committed this
crime because God allowed him to do so. God could have prevented it -
just as He had on other occasions (John 7:30) - but He
didn't. We should not reduce the permission of God to bare permission.
What God does, He had always planned to do, being unrestricted in His
foreknowledge and power etc., I think the best answer is to say that
God ordained the event and all the details and yet Judas did what
he did most freely. Judas certainly did not blame God in any way,
but rather blamed himself saying, "I have betrayed the innocent blood"
(Matthew 27:4) and therefore when he fell, he did so by
transgression (Acts 1:25) utterly perishing in his own corruption (2
Peter 2:12). I trust this helps you. Thanks again for writing.
Colin.
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Received 25-5-06 Hi Colin, I was reading a little from your website and was curious about
your beliefs with respect to Calvinism. A few concerns:
1.
Accountability - I have read a lot about Calvinism and my main conclusion I
came to is that by embracing the Calvinistic doctrine, I have ZERO
accountability. I am either of the elect or the reprobate. This doctrine
appears to relieve MANKIND of any responsibility for their actions.
Forgetting all else aside-interpretations of verses, freewill, etc-for the
moment, this is my conclusion.
A. You are either of the
elect or not of the elect.
Take the elect "person" - If you are travelling
through life and do not believe and do not bear fruits, then at some point
in time, you will have a change of heart via the Holy Spirit. At such point
in time, you will be saved etc. Regardless if I have these facts exactly
right, no person of the "elect" is going to hell. They will eventually
believe.
Hi. Thank you for your email. I
appreciate you writing. First of all, Calvinism nowhere either in
its logic nor in its writings denies the responsibility of man. We
believe and preach that just as God is absolutely sovereign, so too man
is absolutely responsible for
all his thoughts, words and actions. It is true that all the
elect will eventually be brought to faith in Christ and be saved. This great purpose of God is brought to pass through the means of evangelism, and so Calvinists in their capacity as Evangelical Christians, readily evangelise. Even the non Calvinists believe your summary as it stands. You have not stated the difference here among Evangelical believers on this subject.
Take the "non-elect" reprobate - No matter what they do, no matter
how they live their life (same with above), they will never be of the elect
and can never hope to be.
While your words are right
doctrinally correct in themselves, yet their brevity omits some
important matters as can be seen in your application of these things in
the next paragraph.
B. In the above two scenarios, whether
or not I know exactly if I am of the elect, the "PERSON" or "MAN" has NO
responsibility either way.
This, of course, is your
application of these truths. They certainly are not those of the
Calvinists who (as stated above) believe entirely in man's
responsibility. I will tell you why when you state it again below.
If I'm of the elect, then I am saved and going
to heaven. If I'm a reprobate, then I'm dead and on my way to Hell. If I
know I'm of the elect, if I don't know I'm of the elect or if I never heard
of the Bible, it doesn't matter. Everything is predestined - even my
eventual salvation or damnation.
It is you that says it doesn't
matter. You won't hear the Calvinist say it. It matters much. Indeed,
nothing else matters beside it! No unsaved sinner may presume himself
to be reprobate, and when he comes to the promises of God, which are to
be preached indiscriminately to every last sinner, this same sinner may believe that they are for him. This is loaded entirely in the sinner's favour. Should
he decide to sit back and do nothing about his salvation, a thought
credited in John 3:19 to his love of sin, rather than any doctrinal
motives, then he will be lost for ever and rightly so. On the other
hand, if he presses forward into the Kingdom in faith and repentance,
then he will be saved. If I were in a burning building, I would not
abuse the doctrine of the sovereignty of God to sit stil land say, "If
it is the will of God, I will be saved, no matter what I do." I would
head for the nearest exit and if I successfully escape the inferno,
give God the glory that He enabled me to take the correct measures in
doing so.
Calvinistic teaching strips away the
accountability of "Mankind" which is my very first caution or suspicion,
with regards to this doctrine. Yes, life would be so much simpler if I had
no accountability. But any doctrine that allows for such, I would think is
satanic and definetely NOT in line with God's word.
You are building up a straw man here and then knocking it down. As I say, Calvinism firmly teaches that man is a responsible creature. Although man is unable to repent and believe in and of himself
because of sin, he does not lose his responsibility to do so. No man
can sin himself out of responsibility before God. It is not God that
has rendered man unable to so repent etc., but his own wicked sin and
so he is still responsible.
Now you may say
that it doesn't matter what I think, God is omnipotent, all powerful and I
am proud to even be challenging this. But humor me on the above subject,
since I do not have the time (nor do you) to go over Eph, Rom 9 & 10,
Titus, to discuss my views on some of the "core" Calvinistic
passages.
Again, you are creating straw men
here again. You have no idea what my thoughts are about you nor your
motive in challenging (as you word it) the powerful omnipotence
of God. In these pages, I simply try to take each argument as it comes,
accepting it if based on truth exposing and correcting any weaknesses
if it is not.
Lastly, Is Man Totally
Depraved? Isaiah.1:18 "Come now, and let us reason together,
saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as
snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as
wool." Unregenerate man can "reason" with God!
What
kind of "reasoning" do you suppose the unregenerate man reasons with?
Does the corrupt tree bring forth good fruit? (Matthew 7:17-18) What
reasoning churns forth from a heart that is desperately wicked and
deceitful above all things? (Jeremiah 17:9) Nevertheless, God calls men
to meet with Him face to face with their arguments. Such a meeting will
either harden them further in their sins (as it did when the Pharisees
sought to confront the Lord Jesus with their wicked reasonings) or it
will show them the utter bankruptcy of their folly and bring them to
the Cross, where (in line with the text) their crimson and scarlet sins
will be made as white as snow etc.,
Acts 17:30 "But now [God] commandeth all men every where to repent" God does not make
impossible commands: man can "repent"!
As mentioned above, man's inability to do these things is self imposed and does not render him without any responsibility before a Sovereign God.
John 6:29 "This is the
work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." Man can "believe"!
Total Depravity is false doctrine!
Again,
as in your previous text, you are assuming that man's responsibility
presupposes his ability. It is this this error that leads you to brand
Total Depravity as a false doctrine. You neglect those verses which
teach that man cannot come unless he is drawn (John 6:44/65) and that
his carnal mind cannot receive the things of God because they are
spiritually discerned (1 Corinthians 2:14)
For the record, I am going to take
Gods Word (Old King James) and I'm not going to trick myself and make
excuses to change the meanings of words (IF GOD IS ALL POWERFULL, WOULD HE
REALLY ALLOW ONE OF THE OLDEST TRANSLATIONS TO BE NEEDING TO BE EDITED)..I'm
going to base my conclusion strictly on the word of GOD-When he says For God
so loved the WHOLE world...I'm going to take it as the WHOLE world..when he
says ALL, I'm not going to add my own conclusions "All of the elect". Lest
we be reminded of the 2nd to last
verse in the Bible.
I have no problem with the
rendering of the Authorised (King James) Version at all, so the bit in
the middle there, complete with CAPITALS etc., is really a bit
needless. Many Calvinists also take the line that the "world" in John
3:16 is indeed the "whole world" i.e. every last person ever born.
Others, while limiting the "world" in John 3:16 to the elect, yet look
to other scriptures to show the benevolent love of God to all men
without exception. Ultimately it depends on the extent of the love as
to whom it was applied. All the world without exception have not known
nor experienced the redemptive love of God (inasmuch as the whole world
without exception is not saved) The verse is certainly a lot deeper
than the one single interpretation you are putting on it.
Be wary --- If
you are trusting in a "salvation" taking place before you existed, you may
not be saved..
Thank you for your concern.
Although I believe that my salvation was decreed from before the
foundation of the world, I date my salvation from the day in February
1978 when I passed from death unto life (John 5:24)
Like I said earlier, a doctrine that 1) takes away Gods Love
for all Mankind, 2) has to change the meaning of so many words, and 3)
relieves man of accountability..Mr. Calvin is going to have to come up with
something better. Sincerely, JRM, from California, 24 years
old.
You haven't established with
any proof that "Mr Calvin" has been guilty of any of these things.
In fact, you never quoted any one at all, but merely what you think to
be the case. This would not stand up in any court of law, and I only
took the time to answer these things, as another opportunity to show
why people who take on to criticise Calvinism
really should research the matter before they launch into saying
things which do not stand up to scrutiny. Thanks again for writing.
Colin.
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Received 24-5-06 Hi Pastor Maxwell, I know this question may seem simple,
and you may be tempted to give it a quick answer, if any at all, regarding the
fallibility of man (i.e. prejudgement, learned beliefs not easy to discard,
etc.) For background, I am a Christian,
with a solid understanding of and adherance to the Calvinistic, reformed
theology. I also have been a pastor, and am educated by a conservative seminary
in Portland, Oregon. Your answer to one person who asked
the question "Can Arminians really be saved?" spurred me to write. What, in your opinion, causes two
Christians (to simplify the issue) to have opposite beliefs regarding Scripture
(i.e. Calvinist vs. Arminianist) while both reading the Bible, and both being
(assumably) enlightened by the Holy Spirit? It would seem to me that there is
more at issue than the fallibility of man and his own prejudices. Why do you
believe the Holy Spirit would enlighten one man, and not the other. I hope you have time to respond. I
have enjoyed your website and the sacrifices you make to propagate the Word of
God. MB, Portland, OR
Hi. Thanks for taking time to
write and to let us know that our site has been of blessing to you.
Evidently in the scenario you propose above, both (at least
on the crunch issues)
can't be right and therefore one is mistaken, not only in his theology
but also in his claim of the Spirit enlightening him. While it is
for us as Christians to prayerfully study the word of God with an open
and honest heart etc., ultimately God Himself decides the measure of
knowledge and understanding which is given to each of His children.
Flesh and blood does not reveal these things to us, but our
Father in Heaven (Matthew 16:17) It really is a case of "Father knows
best" The more light we have, then the greater our responsibility
to live up to that light. It may also be observed that some folk rebel
against the truth they do receive and therefore should not be surprised
if their fountain of knowledge should yield less than before.
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Received 24-5-06 Hi, Thanks for your email. Time demands that I keep my answers as short as your questions.
How did you become? This question is unclear. I assume
that you are asking how I became a Calvinist. I was saved about 2 or 3
years when I first came across the controversy through other members of
our open air team. I didn't warm to it as first, but I studied it
further and I now believe that it best expresses the doctrine of the
Bible and especially the New Testament. I have never wavered from it
since, although I have discussed and debated it with many Christian
friends since.
Are you sure you weren't a Calvinist from before the foundation of the world? Absoutely sure. I wasn't around then. I only come on the scene in 1961.
Does Calvinist mean a follower of Calvin? I
suppose so, by definition. The use of the term itself is a non issue
with me, but I only follow Calvin inasmuch as he follows Christ. (1
Corinthians 11:1) Where Calvin and Christ part company, I follow Christ.
Can I become a Calvinist by just reading my Bible? If you mean embracing the Doctrines of Grace, then yes, by the help of God's Holy Spirit.
Can I become an Arminian by reading the Bible? Not if you read it properly.
Does God say anywhere that we have to be a Calvinist? Not in so many words, but He likes it when you have proper and balanced
views of the Doctrines of Grace as is evidenced by the inclusion of
(say) the Book of Romans in the inspired canon of Scripture.
You say you made a Decision to be a Calvinist? Did I? OK...the answer would be "yes" if I didn't.
Isn't being Born Again good enough? To get you in Heaven...yes.
I thought being a follower of Christ was enough? It is.
Are both sides explained in the Bible? Just the Doctrines of Grace.
If I just read the Bible I would never know about either. Read it again.
Seems like a lot of man's thinking and ideas come into play in either case. Possibly in some parts of Calvinism and certainly in most of Arminianism.
Maybe I should just read the Bible and leave the Elect or not debate to others. Perhaps
you should. The "others" should remember that the Doctrine of Election
is a high doctrine that needs to be handled with due wisdom and care
and always in the light of the rest of Scripture.
I know that while I was yet a sinner Christ died for me. I read it and
I believe it. I read that Christ saved me and I believe it. I read
there is nothing I can do to earn salvation or God's love and I believe
it. I read He is coming again and I believe it. I read that
if I believe in Him and the One He sent that I have Eternal Life.
I read that he would never leave me or forsake me and I believe
it. I read that if I hear His words and obey them then I would
have a strong foundation and I believe it. I read that if I come
to Him I will never hunger and If I believe
I will never thirst and I believe that also. I read that because
of His righteousness in me that I can stand before God and I believe
it. I read that if I continue in His Word I am His disciple and I
believe it. Now do I have to be an Arminian or a Calvinist? To
get into Heaven...no. To come to a deeper understanding of the Bible,
you will face the issues sooner or later. Better to know where you
stand.
I just don't see that anywhere to be read. Not a question. If you are including it here for my benefit, then see the previous answer.
God gave me Life Eternal and blessed me with a believing wife and daughter. Good.
I would not know where else to go. I would be completely lost. I agree 100% which is a nice note to end on.
Sincerely, Mike Thanks again for writing. I trust these answers have proved to be helpful to you. Colin.
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Received 22-5-06 Greetings, I was so blessed to read your article which was posted on the
Apprising Ministries website because while I have always believed that those who
are saved always remain saved it has been often difficult to explain to others
in the Church who think differently because they always seem to have as many
verses that they believe prove that we aren't assured of always remaining saved.
Your writing definitely made things a lot clearer for me and I've never wavered
from the conviction of eternal security but sometimes, as I said, have had
difficulty in defending the position with other believers who differed. I think
you summed it up very nicely, and probably more accurately, by saying "If
saved...always saved." even though it means the same thing as "once
saved..always saved." Its unfortunate that many who have come to faith in Christ
have tended to see the grace of God as license to live any ol' way they please
with no regard for even attempting to please God by living a holy and godly
life. So in closing let me thank you again for your words and my sincere prayer
that God will continue to use you mightily for the advancement of his Kingdom.
I've been exposed to both points of view regarding eternal security since I grew
up attending an Assembly of God church (which is one of those denominations that
doesn't seem to believe in eternal security) yet I also attended for a time
Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia (a Christian university founded by
Jerry Falwell..a Baptist minister). I know at this point I am no doubt running
on but I never heard eternal security stated as clearly and eloquently as you
have done. Again, thank you. In Christ, Jonathan Oak Harbor, Washington.
Hi. Thanks for your email. Glad our website has been of blessing to you. As you say, "If Saved, always saved"
doesn't change the doctrine, but it does give more emphasis to the
application and that's where the rubber hits the road. Assurance and
Presumption are two entirely different things. Thanks again for
writing. Colin.
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Received 14-5-06 Colin, Grace to you and peace from God our Father and
the Lord Jesus Christ. Thanks for your continued work on Calvinism at
your website. As I read your "The Calvinism Debate Simplified."
my heart just burst out with joy, praising and thanking our God for His
blessed, electing, saving grace! I pray our Lord blesses your ministry,
it has certainly touched a heart here in America. Yours against popery,
BO
Nice to hear from you again
and to know that our site drew out such praise unto God. The Psalmist
said, "O that men would praise the Lord for his goodness, for his
wonderful works to the children of men" and this has been fulfilled in
your case. Thanks for encouraging us as we battle on here in the work
of God. Colin.
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8-5-06 I have not reproduced the original email which was sent to me from PRW, but below is the reply which I made.
Thank you for your email and your comments on my article entitled "The Calvinism Debate Simplified." Since you intersperse your comments freely through the article which you have returned to me in toto, I will not mount it here, but will content myself with the following remarks:
1) While you do raise some good points, you seem determined to fight
every last statement you can. This extends to butting into my sentences
before they are finished with objections based on what has not been
said, or by treating some statements as virtual islands, and devoid of
any kind of context. For example, When I wrote that "all who will be eventually saved have been saved on the basis of God's sovereign grace", you jump in with your bracketed reply after the words "have been saved" with ("Already? A done deal? If the elect are already saved why was Christ sent?") ignoring the opening words "who will be eventually saved"
and (as said) splitting the sentence and so robbing it of its intended
meaning. I have not bothered answering these kind of objections, as
they seem to me to be more of a desire to squabble over words than have
any kind of understanding in a doctrinal discussion.
2) It is possible (and needful) to see that while God ordains sinful
events to take place - for example the Cross (Luke 22:22/Acts
2:23/4:27-28 etc.,) - yet He Himself is not the Author of any sin that
flows from it. God did not merely take advantage of the Cross, but
actually ordained it in its every detail and yet He stands without any
blemish whatsoever. I have yet to see any non Reformed advocate tackle
this issue head on.
3) Christians pray, because God uses means to achieve His ordained end.
Therefore although Daniel knew God had decreed that Israel would spend
70 years in Israel, he still gave himself to earnest prayer on the
matter (Daniel 9)
4) If God changes His mind, as you are advocating, then He must either
have been mistaken to hold to the original position in the first place,
or He has, upon new information received, found a better position to take. This denies His perfections.
5) Your denial of original guilt will repel both Calvinist and non Calvinists alike. I quote: "The problem with the Calvinist view of salvation is they hold that man emerges from the womb already guilty of sin." John Wesley - no Calvinist - enshrined the teaching of original guilt into his 25 articles of religion. I quote: "whereof is one Christ, very God and very Man, who truly suffered, was crucified,
dead, and buried, to reconcile his Father to us, and to be a sacrifice, not only
for original guilt, but also for actual sins of men."
6) Your imputation to Calvinists of salvation by grace plus obedience is without any foundation.
7) Your views on the atonement will likewise repel both Calvinist and non Calvinists alike. I quote:
" the security of salvation by
the atonement is found nowhere in Scripture! our salvation is secured
by our faith that Christ died for us, was buried, and that he rose on
the third day according to the Scriptures, and that is in Scripture, I
Corinthians 15:1-4)
"It was not His intention to save
anyone through the atonement. Salvation is through faith in Christ.
Stated explicitly in Scripture."
"The atonement does not save. It is faith in Christ that saves."
"The Cross cannot save your soul from
hell. It is faith in Christ that saves your soul from Hell, and that is
written throughout Scripture."
This, of course, is nonsense. Why should I put faith in an atonement
that, in your repeated words, does not, cannot, and was never intended
to save anyone? This is rank modernism on your part. The Cross is the
basis of salvation, faith is but the channel which brings it to the
soul.
8) I note your following statement: "Why
are you being mean-spirited? Christ did not die for those already in
hell prior to his death, they have already been judged, that is why
they are there. To assume that Christ suffered for those already judged
and in Hell to make your point does make one question the schooling you
received."
Surely this is limited atonement? You are (rightly) saying here that
Christ did not die for all men without exception, since He did not die
for Cain, Nimrod and Pharaoh etc., and everyone else in hell prior to
Calvary. Yet earlier and again afterwards, you keep insisting it was "for man" implying mankind as a whole and again "not only mine, but everyone else's as well" Again as you summed up: "The
only limitation on the atonement found in Scripture is that , it was
for sinners that Christ died. The last time I looked that was
everyone." And again, as you argue against my doctrine of limited atonement, you say that "He died for us all" But, as quoted above, you deny your own words by telling us "Christ did not die for those already in hell prior to his death" and actually accuse me of being "mean spirited" because I ask the one great question that holes the Unlimited Atonement ship beneath the water line.
Well, that's it from this end. I have left some things, more from the
limitation of time than anything else. If you want to take up one
particular point to pursue the discussion, then please state it briefly
and I will seek to reply to you. However, if you are going to resort to
the behaviour I complain of in my first point, then I cannot afford you
the time and patience that such discussions takes and I am not into
time wasting. Colin.
*******************************************************
Received 22-4-06 Mr. Maxwell, After reading all eight pages concerning the calling of sinners
to redemption thru the gospels of the new testament, and other references. I have
the opinion that I have already come to this same conclusion some years past. I am
69 years old and have been born again for more than 50 of them. I don't see where
John Calvin did anything great in teaching the gospel, according to Jesus Christ.
It is very simple to read and understand, I only hope that all mankind had the
same convictions as we do. Thanks B&BB Ala. USA
Hi. Thanks for your email. I am not quite sure of the page(s) which you
are referring to or of the point that you are trying to make. John
Calvin's influence upon gospel preaching is still ongoing even over 400
years after his death. His wisdom, example and Bible commentaries are
still an inspiration to many, even to those who disagree with his views
on the sovereignty of God. If you wish to make your self clearer, feel
free to write again. Colin.
*******************************************************
Received 9-4-06 Thank you very much - so you're saying warning
passages are there for preservation, that God is saying "I will remove your
name", so we don't do what he's forbidding, but that He will not remove your
name? I'm not disrespectful, but isn't that an empty warning?
I'm not sure if I understand this correctly - if
one reads that passage as it is, it says one's name can be removed. Kind regards, DB, Pta, RSA
Sorry, if I have not made myself
clear. The warning is real. There are no empty warnings in the Bible.
God preserves His people from anything that would ultimately cause
separation from Him. He has decreed to save His people from their sins
(which is why Christ came and died etc., Matthew 1:21) and He cannot
deny Himself (2 Timothy 2:13) He accomplishes His will through the use
of means, mainly from His word through precepts, warnings (as here)
promises, examples etc., When we see such warnings, we are not to walk away
from them and say "They don't apply to me because I am a Christian" but
rather examine ourselves to see if this be so. Such warnings are a
check on presumption, rather than a hindrance to assurance. Indeed,
after such examination, if we really be in Christ, then our assurance
should be strengthened, although such should be built on what Christ
has done for us rather than what we have done (or think we are doing)
for Him. See also our page "Once saved - always saved" for a balanced approach to this subject. Thanks again for writing. Colin.
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Received 6-4-06 Hi there. Thanks for the great site - I'm still working
through it. Can you perhaps help me with Rev 22:19? "And
if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy,
God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the
holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Doesn't
this refute perseverance of the saints? I looked through some
commentaries, and some say it should read "tree of life". I couldn't
find anything substantial on this passage though - I hope you can maybe
help me. Kind regards, DB
Hi. Thanks for writing and
letting us know that our website has been of some use to you. It
is largely immaterial whether we read it as the Book of Life or the Tree of life as
the meaning is largely the same. The short answer is that the saints
are preserved from anything which would separate them from God, as
clearly taught in Romans 8:28-39. The warning is there as the means
which God uses to effect this great purpose and should not be taken
lightly. A point which holds for all warning passages in the word of
God. If a child of God can be saved and lost, then it casts a slight on
the [i] Decree of God to save Him [ii] The efficacy of the Blood of
Christ to actually redeem Him and [iii] the power of the Holy Spirit to
indwell Him and preserve Him. Thanks again for writing. Colin.
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Received 1-4-06 Brother Maxwell, How do you do? Just to ask if someone has already
translated your articles into Spanish. If not, may I be allowed to translate
some of your Calvinism articles to Spanish? Thanks in advance,
Louis.
Hi
Louis. Thanks for your email. I am unaware of any one having translated
any of our Calvinism articles into Spanish, so feel free to do so
yourself. If you could just acknowledge the source i.e. "Colin Maxwell, Cork Free Presbyterian Church" somewhere on the article. Thanks again for writing. Colin.
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Received 27-3-06 Hi. T
hanks again for your site, it's a great resource. I was having
a discussion with a non Calvinistic brother, and he tells me that the passages in
the New Testament which deal with the elect almost always have the context of
"in Him," ie Christ. For example, Ephesians 1v4, "According as He hath chosen us in
Him..." and others. Now he says that God doesn't specifically elect individuals,
but that those who choose Him through use of their free will are seen as elect
because they are in Him, and Christ is described as the elect one in notable
passages such as
Isaiah 42v1, "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in
whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth
judgment to the Gentiles."
And because we are "in Him", and that when God looks on us He
sees Christ, for that reason, we are considered elect, not because we are the
subjects of the Father's special electing love.
What would you say to this argument? I disagree with him on the
grounds of Romans 9, but do you see other contradictions to this perspective? Thanks again, Robert.
Thanks for your email and for taking the time to write and express your appreciation for the site. We were elected, as individuals,
in Christ as seen, for instance, in the command for us to make our
calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10) Although addressed to the
brethren (plural) yet how can this done except each man within the
fellowship see it to himself as an individual? How can I make the
calling and the election of another man sure? How can another make my
calling and election sure? The language of election in John 6 (v37,
v44,45 etc., ) deals with individuals. Romans 9 is a good reference
also, as you have observed. If there is no special electing love, as is
implied above, then we effectively elected ourselves and there is no
Scripture for such a thing. Election is specifically credited to the
Father who gave us to Christ (John 17/1 Thessalonians 1:4) Finally, the
election of Christ in Isaiah 42:1 is obviously a different kind of
election - ours was unto salvation from sin, something which Christ
obviously had no need of. His election was unto service i.e. in
becoming the Captain of our Salvation. Thanks for your note. Colin.
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Received 27-3-06 Hello Brother, Having listened to your Heart Of The Matter interview, I was interested to hear you repeat the charge against Calvin regarding Servetus. Please read this article,
and maybe you could lead the way in correcting this false view of
Calvin. Thanks for your efforts on that debate by the way, and it was a
joy to hear you were even able to preach the gospel! Yours in Christ,
PF, Liverpool.
Hi, Thank you for your email. I read the article as requested. While I don't hold Calvin totally responsible for what happened to Servetus, I think the best
we can say is that he was a child of his time. However, any thing short
of pleading for Servetus to be spared (even if exiled) falls far
short of what the Bible requires. I would dearly love to be able to
find evidence to this end, because I am an admirer of Calvin, but I
cannot let the wish father the thought. In the interview referred to
above, which refers to a public debate I had with a RC priest,
I was denying the Church of Rome her claims to be a Christian church
and mentioned the Inquisition as evidence. I was waiting for the
priest to raise the issue of Calvin, but he did not do so. The
difference though is this. No Calvinist or Protestant today calls for
the return of so dealing with heretics. The Society of Pius X, which the debating priest represented, continues to justify the Inquisition. Thanks for writing. Colin.
*******************************************************
Received 27-3-06 Good Day
Sir! Perhaps you may
find time to take a minute to respond. Do you have an opinion on the writings of
William Huntington? A friend of mine,
who has hypercalvinist tendencies, has been recommending me to read a bit of his
work such as Arminian Skeleton. As I try to be
selective in what I read am trying to find out more about Huntington
first so I know
his perspective when reading. Plus I want to
thank you for a fine web site. I found it thru a link at
monergism.com and have read most of it. Thanks for taking so much time to supply
the information and reviews it contains. In
Christ, MSO.
Hi.
Thanks for your email. Nice to have you visit and benefit from our
site. I remember reading some of Huntington's works a few
years ago and found him quite engaging. I read William Ella's biography
of him last year. I do not rate him very highly at all, mainly because
of his great bitterness against Arminians and John Wesley whom he
regarded as a child of hell etc., and his hyper Calvinism. AW Pink
didn't think much of him, "…Mixed
up with considerable truth (or none had so readily swallowed his
poison) were errors of a serious nature, such as his repudiation of the
free gospel offer to all who hear it, his denial of duty repentance and
duty faith…" (Letter to John T. McNee May 1947 Quoted by Iain
Murray in the Life of Arthur Pink BOT p.138) Overall, Spurgeon
also distanced himself from his views, while acknowledging his
undoubted gifts. He had a tendency to read Calvinism into every verse
and on one occasion, he applied the 7th Commandment ("Thou shalt not
commit adultery") to the doctrine of Particular Redemption, arguing
that Christ to have given Himself for any other than His own bride
(i.e. the Church) would be in violation of this commandment! This is
reckless nonsense! On the other hand, William Romaine held him in very
high regard - "God raises up such men as John Bunyan and William
Huntington but once in a century." I
know we should read every man with some degree of caution, but I think
with Huntington, I would be so cautious as to rob myself of any
enjoyment in reading. I trust this helps. Thanks for writing.
Colin.
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Received 21-3-06 Brother Colin, How do you do? I thank you for your wonderful reply to my
first email about evangelism and Arminians. However, I do have a question
that have been troubling me these last days. Can Arminians (either 5 or 4
point; especially 4-point) be saved? This is my explanation. When we want
assurance of salvation, we, as Calvinists, look back to the cross where our
sins have been laid on Christ. We don't look back at the time when we made a profession of faith, or repented, or exercised faith in Christ. However,
most of the Arminians I have been talking to always refer to the moment when
they "made a decision for Christ", and I reckon they place their faith in
THAT instead of in the finished work of Christ. My argument is a
two-fold one-- Since they believe that Christ died for everyone, they don't
believe that Jesus' sacrifice itself is savable or that it actually secures
the salvation of people. So they are most likely (I say most likely because
I, as an inconsistent Arminian, looked back to the cross!) to look back at
the time when they made a profession of faith, because they believe THAT is
the moment when the blood of Christ is made powerful to their
lives. My final question, can such people be saved? I know that God saves
some people in spite of bad theology. However, how can a person be saved if
he/she trusts a decision rather than what Jesus did at the cross for them?
Belief is not a one-time act, but a continuing/ongoing exercise of the faith
has granted us. I thank you for your kindness in answering these
questions. In Christ, -LA
Hi.
Thanks again for your email. I appreciate you writing and sharing your
thoughts with us. I would find it very hard to "damn" the Arminians of
whatever variety. I think their problem (apart from their flawed
theology) is their stating of their position. As you say, they often
refer back to their decision (which is subjective) rather than the
finished work of Christ (objective) I see it though more as a
communication problem than a theological one. There is nothing in their
theology that demands that they should make their decision rather
than the Cross their hope for eternity. It is this that puts them apart
from sincere, though lost, religionists. Thankfully many of them are
better than their system of doctrine and are, in fact, inconsistent
Calvinists! We should always bear in mind that different folk
emphasise different things at different times too, especially if
debating/discussing with someone from the other camp. Although we root
our salvation solely in what Christ as done, yet it is important too
that we link to this finished work by faith. Without faith, we cannot
be saved. This is why we should strive for a balanced presentation, emphasing both the objective and the subjective. I trust this helps. Thanks again for writing. Colin.
*******************************************************
Received 21-3-06 Pastor Maxwell,
I was reading over your article on David Cloud (here) You cited David Cloud:"At a meeting of ministers, where the senior Ryland presided, Carey proposed
that at the next meeting they discuss the duty of attempting to spread the
Gospel amongst the heathen. Ryland, shocked, sprang to his feet and ordered
Carey to sit down, saying: 'When God pleases to convert the heathen, he will do
it without your aid or mine!'"
You replied:
"Point taken…but is it fair to imply that Ryland
was a typical Calvinist? Why not call him a hyper Calvinist? If nothing else it
would help the true Calvinists who have a desire to see the heathen converted by
the means of missionary evangelism put a distance between them and the hyper
Calvinists..."
I don't need to cite any more
here, as I agree with your point here completely. However, I do
have a suggestion. Cloud is actually citing a quote that is, itself,
questionable, so he's running with this information as if it's a
settled fact. This is, in addition to a failure to
differentiate between hyper-Calvinism and Calvinism, not exactly a well
attested quote. John Ryland Jr. denied that his father said
this. Michael Haykin's biography of John Sutcliff does does
discuss this, but he doesn't say much, but he does mention that Carey
recalled that Ryland had called his efforts "unscriptural."In a
footnote in Volume 1 of The Baptists by Thomas J. Nettles, he
cites p. 196 of Haykin's book. He writes:
"In Haykin's account it is unclear as to whether the mention of Ryland was
by Carey or by Marshman. Eustace Carey discusses the event, believes it
happened, but also indicates that Carey, at least on one occasion, did not
recall its happening. 'At a meeting of ministers in Northhampton, about this
time, Mr. Ryland, senior, called upon the young ministers to propose a topic for
discussion. As no one else obeyed the challenge, after waiting some time, Mr.
Carey proposed for consideration, "the duty of Christians to attempt the spread
of the gospel among the heathen nations." The old gentleman received the
announcement of the subject with great surprise. Mr. Morris, now the only
surviving friend who was present upon the occasion, says, that Mr. Ryland called
him an enthusiast for entertaining such an idea. I am aware that Dr. Ryland
questioned the accuracy of Mr. Morris's recollection as to this matter; and when
he inquired of Dr. Carey some years ago, he was of the same mind. But, with me,
this does not invalidate the correctness of Mr. M's testimony. I well recollect
my relatives speaking to me soon after my arrival in India, respecting this
meeting, and Mr. R's remark (Memoir, 62). John Ryland Jr. calls it
"that ill-natured anecdote respecting my father and young Carey' (Life and
Death, 175) So, just thought you might want to know...God Bless,GMB
Thanks
for your note. I was aware of the question mark hanging over this
particular incident. I decided not to challenge the validity of the
quote in my reply to Cloud, because he would probably regard it as a
weakness. I thought it better to take it at face value, let it have all
its strength, and then show how it fails to establish his point. As
readers of these pages will know I am singularly unimpressed with Cloud as a critic of Calvinism.
I don't think getting at truth is his first and foremost desire. He is
politicking and is very selective in his use of quotes and "facts"I do
make a point of answering him though. Personally, that kind of thing
disgusts me. It pleases me no end to see that if you type David Cloud Calvinism into Google that this site and our old geocities based site occupy the first 4 places above Cloud's own site :-) Thanks again for writing. Colin.
*******************************************************
Received 20-3-06 Dear Pastor Colin, I came upon your website. It is a good
defense of Calvinism. Let me tell you my experience. I was
disfellowshipped for preaching on the Sovereignty of God and that it was
God who chose us first. Just after I finished my sermon, the
pastor "corrected" it from the pulpit to the congregation. Yet, when
his friend David Cloud caricatured and misrepresented Calvinism he said
nothing. The ironical thing is that the Trust Deed of the Church
says the minister must give a Calvinistic interpretation of
Scripture. Here is an e-mail I sent to
friends:
"http://www.bethelwimbledon.com
http://www.bethelwimbledon.com/gcf.htm
Dear
Friends, I have constructed new web pages. I am new to this and I
am learning as I go along. I am using Frontpage. The Web pages are simple
and need to be improved but I hope the information contained will be
useful. The main web page concerns factual and historical
information about Bethel Baptist Church, Wimbledon. I was a member and
deacon of this church.In March 2005 I preached a sermon on
the Sovereignty of God ("Who chose who?"). As a result, I was
disfellowshipped despite the fact that I was merely preaching on what the
Trust Deed specifically stipulates. I regard what has happened at Bethel
something akin to a coup d'état. I still consider myself as a
deacon and member of Bethel, albeit, in exile. The present pastor is
being investigated by the Grace Baptist Trust Corporation who are
Trustees of the building. He is an American, Independent,
Fundamentalist, Separatist, KJVOnly, Scofield, Pre-mil, Pre-Trib
Dispensationalist Baptist. He supports Gail Riplinger. The other
pages concern the Greek missionary work in which I am involved. I welcome any advice and comments on these web
pages.God bless you all. In
Christ, Pavlos"
Hi.
Thanks for your appreciative email. I am sorry to read of your troubles
in your church. As you are probably aware, I have a few pages listed in
our Calvinism index page about Cloud's attacks on Calvinism, especially one which shows his incompetence as a critic of our side of the argument. I found the above information interesting, because in one of Mr Cloud's latest blasts (which I analyse here) - last month he ran 3 or 4 long articles blasting away at us - he laments that "Many
churches that were established as non-Calvinist assemblies and that
have non-Calvinist doctrinal statements are being infiltrated by and in
some cases taken over by Calvinists." Hmmmm! It will be interesting to see how this investigation by the Grace Baptist Trust Corporation
get on. It sounds a bit like the old cuckoo method of taking over
someone elses nest. Anyway, I have to run as things are very busy here.
Thanks for writing. Colin.
*******************************************************
Received 20-3-06 Hello, I think you should spend your limitless energies on bringing the
simple Gospel of Christ to the lost. I'm just an average Christian. I
believe that Jesus intended His truth to be simple and obvious; I believe
little children and even those with Downs Syndrome can accept Christ as
their savior and know they will spend eternity with Him.
Hi. Thank you for your email. I appreciate you taking the time to write. If you care to consult some of our evangelism pages, you will see that we do
spend time and energy bringing the simple gospel to the lost. I
agree with you 100% that Christ's truth is obvious and about
little children and those with Down's Syndrome. There is nothing on our
site to suggest otherwise.
I believe
that because, no matter how you cut it, salvation is a FREE gift and God
would not take back a gift. You, as an 'Armenian' say, 'that
is impossible'. Well listen, I believe the simple Gospel dictates both
a choice of free will and I also believe the free gift will not be taken
back. Wow, here is a real simpleton, huh? Think again, my 'intellectual'
friend. (If someone 'falls away' from their faith, us simpletons just say,
'well he must have never really believed in the first place). How sad
that you spend so much time trying to convince people of things that we don't
need to and can't know. I believe, (now this will probably drive you nuts),
that Calvin and Armenian (of course I spelled it wrong) are both in heaven
right now thinking about what a waste of time this unending parsing was;
arguing about cunundrums instead of building each other (I know they didn't
know each other) up and sharing the simple Gospel.
I'm
not quite sure where you are coming from in some of your comments. You
seem to be arguing more with yourself on this posting than you are with
me. I get the drift of what you are saying, but I do not see myself as
an intellectual (certainly, none of my friends do) nor do I
see people who take a different position from mine as simpletons.
I don't understand while professing to strive for simple and obvious
truth, that you deliberately misspell Arminian? I don't agree with you
that trying to maintain the gospel in all its purity is either a waste
of time or a conundrum.
I love you, brother (I
don't know you, but if you've turned your life over to Jesus you are my
brother). Simplify your life. Concentrate on spreading God's love
(Jesus). DC
I love you too; but please, I am rather busy, especially on a Monday morning. Thanks again. Colin.
*******************************************************
Received 10-3-06 Hello Sir! I have really enjoyed reading your
section about the
myths [about] Calvinism. I am saved by faith in Christ and I am
learning that He chose me to be His. I am thankful for your
writings. Is there anything I can do to help you and your
church? God Bless, GP
Hi.
Thanks for your email and for letting us know that the above page has
been of help to you. I suppose the best thing you could do is to pray
for the ministry here, that God would use it for His own glory and the
salvation of souls. Colin.
*******************************************************
Received 10-3-06 Hello Brother Maxwell, Great articles! Thank you for putting them on the
web, they are very useful. Now as of late (just 3 weeks or so ago) I came
face to face with the teaching of Calvinism, of which in the past few years
I have always just dismissed it as an error; however, this time the Lord had
other plans, and I decided to look into it a bit more. I bought a couple
books, like Arthur Pink's, "Sovereignty of God", and "Attributes of God",
and a few other articles by Warfield online; and they have REALLY impacted
me to search further into this matter---it's almost like this teaching was
made for me or something. I am a real 'thinker' you could say, I seem to
have been all my life. So when I started to read some stuff from these great
Christian men of old who held to Calvinism, and noticed how deep their
thinking was, and how they seemed to really have thought things through, I
was totally captivated by them!
Hi.
Thanks for your email. I am always encouraged to read of Christians
coming into the appreciation of the Doctrines of Grace. Warfield, whom
you mention above, said that Calvinism was simply evangelicalism come
to its own i.e. in its fullest expression. I agree.
Now I must admit, I am a KJV
Onlyist; I came to this understanding only 2 years ago, after going through
about 17 modern bibles and realizing that they were far inferior through and
through. But I have engrossed myself with the KJV Only teachers for the last
2 years there from, and I feel that I am unevenly 'balanced' now?
Subsequently, seeing as how these great authors like Pink and company have
showed in their writings that going to the Greek and Hebrew on some passages
is not from Satan, and that the KJV is not infallible made me wonder, Could
it be true? There
is absolutely nothing wrong in studying the Greek and the Hebrew. After
all, the KJV translators evidently did so! While we believe that the
word of God is infallible, yet we cannot hold up an individual translation and say that it is infallible in its every jot and tittle. There is an extremism out there which we ought to carefully avoid.
I have been told that EVERY single word and comma is perfect
and without mistake in our KJV. So, Colin, if you will, could you please
show me how that this could be a blinding way to live the Christian
life (that is, if you think it would be?)
Maybe
the word "blinding" is too strong a word to use, but it is not a
healthy position to adopt, since it is simply not true. Some folk may
believe it and yet it do them little harm if any. However, others may
be susceptible to other false and more serious premises and this lead
them away from the things of God.
Namely, do you know of any words in
the KJV that are clearly wrong or clearly not as good as they could be, when
compared to the Greek? And is there a Greek text (TR) that we can trust as
infallible?
To
use the phrase "clearly wrong" is maybe a bit strong on it, but
"clearly not as good as they could be" is more like it. Some of the
words are very archaic and I would not be amiss to updating them.
I would like to preserve the KJV text as it is, and so I would put
these updated words into the margin or footnotes. I think "Easter" in
Acts 12:4 should be translated "Passover" as it is everywhere else the
Greek word paschal is translated.
And do you know of any good books or articles that would really
help me to see clearer that the KJV is not infallible? (but, I would prefer
to see stuff from men that still at least hold that the KJV is the only
reliable English Bible).
The Trinitarian Bible Society
have a wealth of good articles on their website. Many of their
personnel are Calvinists and hold to the Authorised Version has the
only really reliable English Bible.
Do know what Calvin thought about this
subject? or any other well known Calvinists of the past?
The
KJV wasn't printed in Calvin's day and anyway, he was a French man
labouring for God in a Swiss City, so he was hardly interested in an
English version! His war was with the Latin Vulgate which was promoted
by the RC Church. Perhaps, though, he quoted the Vulgate if and when it
gave a better sense of the original. I don't know because I have never
looked at Calvin from this particular point of view. He was involved in
Bible translation himself and I am nearly sure that the texts used
would have been those which underlie the Authorised Version as the
Reformation Bibles tended to be. Other Calvinists from the past
were divided on this issue, although the division only really started
in 1881 after the publication of the Revised Version. What unites
Calvinists is their adherence to the Doctrines of Grace...not what
Bible translations they use.
And most
importantly, if you could, could you show me two or three OBVIOUS errors in
the KJV? I just need to know that it isn't perfect through and through. I
have read and seen writings by men who apparently had found some mistakes,
and places that could have been better improved upon in the KJV; but to be
totally honest with you, Colin, none of what they said seemed to pan out,
everything they said I was able to find an honest, truthful, and accurate
rebuttle for, showing that the KJV was correct. Now Pink and a few others
have said that 2 Thess 2:11 should be "THE lie" and not "a lie", is that
correct?
I don't read my Bible looking for errors and I don't think it is
particularly helpful to go down that line. If I pick up a better
rendering somewhere else (usually through the commentators) I am
happy to run with it . While I am an Authorised Version man, I am not
blindly so. Words are only there to convey truth and if other words
make the truth clearer, then I cannot stick with an inferior set of
words. It is true that 2 Thessalonians 2:11 should be "the lie" The
other rendering " a lie" can hardly be called wrong, but it cannot be
doubted that the rendering of these words as "the lie" is a better
translation.
Thank you for whatever you can lead me to
sir, Sincerely, Josiah P.S. - And do you know of any good
Calvinistic, King James using, preachers or teachers that have online audio
sermons to listen to?
Thanks
for writing again. I trust these words have helped you. Let me
encourage you to continue using the Authorised Version, although be
open to any improvements made upon it where needs be. This is a more
balanced approach and it will deliver you from some of the more wacky
"defences" that have been put up for it, which are clearly in error.
The Free Presbyterian Church used only the Authorised Version in
its pulpits and literature. We are also a Calvinistic
Church, with our Bible based theology finding its expression in the Westminster Confession of Faith. You will good sermons based on this position here and here and here etc.
*******************************************************
Received 8-3-06 Dear Pastor Maxwell, I am a young high school student, and your brother in Christ. As I was
researching for a paper that I'm writing on the doctrine of justification I
stumbled upon your website and began reading some the article entitled
A
Word to Those Who Take it Upon Themselves to Refute Calvinism. I was
dismayed at what I read. I do not wish to discuss the merits of Calvinism vs.
Arminianism with you (I don't know where to put myself on the spectrum in
between the opposite ends). I was simply dismayed by the language you chose to
speak of your opponents. You are speaking against those who misrepresent the
views of Calvinism. You claim to have the truth, and all truth is from God.
Therefore, if you have the truth you should be speaking it as "the oracles of
God." (1 Peter 4) Yet your words convey, not a genuine love and desire for the
truth to be known (as should the words of God), but haughty disdain. It sounds
like nothing more than blowing your top. If you have the truth, the speak it in
love. I believe that you love God and desire to see his name glorified: then
change your website, because what is up there now will do nothing but create
division in His body. I will pray for you. Sincerely, MA
Hi,
Thank you for your note. I'm sorry that you should be offended when
reading the above article. Obviously I must disagree with your views
and I do so because the whole point of the article is to take out
of the debate those things which are untrue and which tend to create
tensions between Calvinists and non Calvinists. I have seen too many
debates on these important things slide into a mere trading of insults
and the precious truths which both sides were claiming to love and
defend got lost in the rancour. The
division is already there in the Body over these doctrines. If I can at
least try and remove the misunderstandings, then maybe Calvins and non
Calvinists can move unto the place whereby they can see where each
other is coming from. Perhaps at the end, we may have to agree to
differ, but we can do this (as we do) in a spirit of grace and love
towards one another. I
purposely refrain, even if I am riled, from using any insulting
language. An example of this is my declining to use the term "Arminian"
(which I notice that you use) when I know that this term is offensive
to many. I am quite happy with the tone used in the above article and
therefire intend to keep it posted.Thanks again for writing. Colin.
*******************************************************
Received 8-3-06 Hi, Brother! My name is Chuck Roberts, and I'm the
guy who signed the EIPS "Guestbook" right after you. I mentioned I'd be praying
for you, and I will. I'm sure countless others will too. After signing it, I
decided to "surf on in" to your homepage. GREAT SITE!. Like yourself, I'm a
Calvinist, and like yourself, I neither believe nor practice what non-Calvinists
say we do, to wit, that Calvinism is a soul-winning deadening belief. After all,
Brother Apostle Paul was a Calvinist (even before Calvin :) ) and he was
certainly one of history's best soulwinners. Your exposition of John 3:16 is
excellent. I hope to use it myself one day, Lord willing. Anyway, keep up the
great work and I'll remember you in prayer. Maybe someday if I ever get to
visit the Emerald Isle (as I'd love to someday, along with all of Great Britain)
I hope to visit your church. CR.
Received 8-3-06 Hi, Brother! Please permit me one more email. If
I weren't a Calvinist (perhaps better put as "Biblicist") I would be very
discouraged vis-a-vis soul-winning. If I believed that the best I could do is
pray that God would see to it that the person I'm burdened for will hear the
gospel and be brought under Holy Spirit conviction - and nothing else - knowing
that God is 100% dependent on said individual to obey the gospel on his own
free-will, I would be very discouraged indeed! But because I know that God
chooses the Blessed and causes them to approach unto Him (as Brother King David
wrote in one of the Psalms) I know every person I pray for and/or give the
Gospel to could very well be saved. That encourages me to absolute no end.
That's why I can pray daily for ex-Beatles Paul and Ringo, knowing that in spite
of their wicked lives and hardened hearts "the Lord's arm is not shortened that
it cannot save." That's all. Thank you for your time. CR
Thanks
for your emails. I appreciate you taking the time to write and also
your appreciative remarks. Keep evangelising! You have evidently got
the zeal there and the dependence upon God to use your efforts.
Certainly their strong belief in the sovereign grace of God never
hindered Whitefield or Spurgeon or McCheyne or indeed Calvin himself in their evangelism. Thanks again for writing. I agree with you 100%. Colin.
*******************************************************
Received 8-3-06 This may answer many of your difficult questions about God. Christ's death is a rescue mission, not a bargain. JN
Hi JN. Thanks again for writing. I have perused the short article
linked to here and I cannot agree with its contents. It denies the
fundamentals of the gospel including the blood atonement of Jesus
Christ and the wrath of God in a Christ rejecter's hell. Christ
described Himself as being a ransom (Matthew 20:28) and without the
shedding of blood, there is no remission (Hebrews 9:22) Luke 16:19-31
along with 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10 make it clear that God is also a God
of wrath as well as a God of love and mercy. The above link has little
if anything to offer anyone. I hope this doesn't come across as being
unduly blunt, but the central tenets of the gospel must be protected at
all costs. Thanks again for writing. Colin.
*******************************************************
Sent 7-3-06 to David Cloud, Way of Life Web site. (It is not often that I publish an email
which I sent first. See below at 21-3-06. Still in red though, for if and when I get a reply.
Hi, Just a courteous note to let you know that I have
posted an analysis of your Refutation of Calvin's proof texts on our
site. I find it very hard to believe that you could state
things like: Calvinists don't believe that the sinner can reject the gospel
(Even put in capitals) and again that Calvinists believe that faith is a work. I
notice that you do not give any references for such statements, and the simple
reason is that you cannot. I draw attention to these things in the above
analysis. Colin Maxwell, (Cork Free Presbyterian Church)
*******************************************************
Received 25-2-06
I was recently reading your article on Some advice to
those who take it upon themselves to write against Calvinism. While
reading it I thought, "Yes, I think I do agree with the Calvinistic argument" but at
the same time I think God is laughing at us all. I say this because I see so
many Christians argue about who is right about baptism who is right about once
saved always saved and so on and I think "Okay, let's say I'm right; let's say that
I think a baby should be baptised or that I think the Calvinists are right once
saved always saved" Who really cares what I think anyways? GOD WILL DO WHAT HE
WANTS REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE THINK, so then that ends all debates. No reason to
debate, God is in control and I think we should focus our attention and time on
things that are important like living for Christ - not trying to prove what we
think is right or wrong. Silly waste of time!! Sorry just thought I'd let you
all know that you are all wasting your time and God will let us all know who was
right in the end and maybe it might not be either of us!! Colleen.
Thanks
Colleen for your email. I'm still trying to work out if it would
be a further waste of time answering it (?) Colin.
*******************************************************
Received 23-2-06 [See original email 21-2-06] I said: I like that statement, "we only follow [Calvin] as far as he
followed Christ." But I'm rethinking it. It still *really* bothers me
that as you said, "Without having researched the whole matter, Calvin does
seem to throw us up some unsavoury aspects." The problem I still have is
"we shall know them by their fruits." According to the
aforementioned site: Calvin is a "Life-Long Unrepented Murderer." If that's true and we are
to recognize bad teachers (and their bad teaching) by their fruit, shouldn't
we reject Calvin? How else shall we recognize bad teachers? This is
very troubling. I don't worship Calvin, but if he was indeed unsaved, wicked, a
wolf in sheep's clothing then to me his teaching is corrupt. We don't have
to throw out TULIP I suppose, but how much should we let Calvin influence us,
assuming he's guilty and unrepentant? We as Calvinists should not be
afraid to wrestle with this stuff. On the subject, I found these
pages: http://reformed-theology.org/html/issue02/c_vs_s.htm and http://carla_b.tripod.com/realfacts/truth_calvin.html While
wrestling, I will ask myself if putting to death a heretic might be similar to
stoning in the OT; justified killing. CVD.
Thanks
again for your note. I take the line that what Geneva (including
Calvin) did to Servetus was wrong. We might try and soften the whole
thing by saying that they were children of their time, that other
evangelical people applauded their actions and that Rome also endorsed
it (although the last observation cuts no ice with me) but that doesn't
excuse it in any way. Today, we don't argue for putting heretics
to death. We believe the pen to be mightier than the sword. Despite
what some of his critics say, Calvin tells us that he cared deeply for
the spiritual wellbeing of Servetus and desired that he would turn to
Christ. I quote from Deubine's Life of Calvin: "Calvin resolved to accept Servetus’s invitation.
These two young men, born in the same year, gifted each of them with marvelous
genius, unshakeable in their convictions, are about to enter the lists. What
blows they will deal each other! What a struggle! Which will come off conqueror?
If Luther, Zwingle, and Bucer are so animated, what will Calvin be? He was the
one who showed the most moderate sentiments with regard to Servetus. Alas! why
did he not continue so to the last? ‘ I will do all in my power to cure
Servetus,’ he said. ‘If I show myself in public, I know that I expose my life;
but I will spare no pains to bring him to such sentiments, that all pious men
may be able to take him affectionately by the hand.’" (Vol 3:95) Without
doubt, the whole matter is a deep blot on the testimony of Calvin and I
have no desire to minimalise it. I believe that Calvin was indeed a
saved man, as the immense spirituality of his writngs, admired even by
his theological enemies, prove. I must admit that I am much happier
defending the doctrines which, for good or bad, bear his name than I am
for defending the man himself. Colin.
Also received the same day: I like that statement, "we only follow [Calvin] as far as he followed
Christ." Now what of the textual issues he brings up? CVD
A good look round our Calvinism index page will help you tackle any objections to the Doctrines of Grace which are raised. Colin.
*******************************************************
Sent 21-2-06 to David Cloud, Way of Life Web site. (This is a unique
situation on these Calvinism emails pages, where I publish an email
which I sent first. Still in red though, for if and when I get a reply.
I notice that you have since dropped the things
which you once appreciated about Calvinism, although Calvinism hasn't changed
and I see the pretty useful and balancing examples of Calvinist soulwinners have
been dropped also, which to my mind detracts greatly from your article.
However, I am actually writing to see if you have
actually have a verifiable reference for the added
statement:
"Calvin wrote about Servetus, 'One should not
be content with simply killing such people, but should burn them
cruelly.'”
As you know, I tend not to
take any man's word for any serious
charges against God's people. I sincerely hope it is not some mere rumour, void
of any truth or substance. If you could supply the reference so that I can check
it myself, I would be grateful.
Yours, Colin Maxwell, (Cork Free Presbyterian Church)
Received 21-2-06 Hello. I might have gotten that quote from William Jones, but I don't recall
and my library is in the States. You said, "As you know I tend not to take
any man's words..." I have no idea how I would know such a thing, such I do
not know you in the slightest. I do know that you have written before and
said something about something you have written but I am deluged with mail
and am extremely busy and have no interest in yet another Calvinist who wants
to challenge me. In Christ, D. Cloud
Sent 21-2-06: Thanks for your reply. Might it not be better that such a horrendous quote be
withdrawn until it can be verified? Would this not be the God honouring
way to go about things? Colin Maxwell, (Cork Free Presbyterian
Church)
*******************************************************
Received 21-2-06 Bravo! on your Calvinist site. I loved this page on criticising Calvinism. Have you reviewed this site? Aside
from spending too much time criticizing the character of Calvin himself*, I like
his honesty. He makes a good point though when he says, "You Shall
Know Them By Their Fruits." I like to stick to textual arguments, but if
it's true that Calvin is a murderer that's disturbing. Nonetheless the
actions of a sinful man don't refute sound doctrine. We don't worship
Calvin. CDV.
Hi.
Thanks for your email. Glad you have found our site to be helpful to
you. I don't think I have reviewed the site you mention above, and to
be honest, at the moment things are very busy here. Currently we are shifting many of the files from our old geocities
site over to this new site as well as keeping the other parts of the
work running. Without having researched the whole matter, Calvin does
seem to throw us up some unsavoury aspects. However, the other side of
the story is that even people like John Wesley could say "John Calvin was a pious, learned, sensible man;"
However, strictly speaking, Calvin is no one is this debate. As
you say, we do not worship Calvin. We only follow him as far as he
followed Christ. The issue is "What saith the Scripture?" and on this basis, we are to proceed. Thanks again for your views. Colin.
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Received 20-2-06 Hi Colin, Thanks a lot for your quick reply. [See 14-2-06] Since you differentiate between God's
love for elects and non-elects, so in your view: God doesn't love non-elects
enough to save them? Not much different from those who insist that He eternally
hates non-elects, right? Btw affirming God's impartial love for all human beings doesn't necessarily
mean affirming Universalism (that God will eventually save all regardless of
their response) since God doesn't force His love unto us. From what I see, both
Calvinism and Universalism deny the importance of our response in salvation.Again, thanks and God bless! Shalom, JN
Hi
JN, Thanks for your email again. Re: God's love to the non elect,
perhaps I should point out that there is nothing deficient in God's
love. However, obviously, such cannot be said (by definition) to
be an electing love towards the non elect and there is an immediate
difference. This is a million miles away from those who insist that God
eternally hates the non elect and has no gracious or merciful feelings
towards them, at all. These are the kind of people who use the
illustration of the farmer simply feeding the turkey in order to fatten
it for slaughter at Christmas, and to be honest, they leave me very
cold and numb. Far from leaving the sinner without any required
response, Calvinism requires the sinner to repent and believe the
gospel. This is basic Evangelicalism, and it is worth noting that most
of the great Evangelists from the past, whose deeds are acknowledged by
all Christians were in fact Calvinists. Although Calvinism can hold its
own in debates (see the current one
at the moment) yet controversy is never going to thrill the heart.
Calvinism's beauty is to be seen in its undergirding of the sermons of
its adherents. If you read the sermons of Spurgeon or of Whitefield, McCheyne or the Bonars, or the writings of John Bunyan etc.,
you will see Calvinism in its warmest manifestations. I don't know
where else you have reading, but don't let the likes of Dave Hunt or
David Cloud demonise us. Thanks again for writing. Colin.
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Received 18-2-06 Hi
Colin, enjoying reading your website, keep up the good work. I was
wondering if you could tell me what is meant by the term "offer of the
gospel."? Does it mean that the gospel should be preached to everyone,
and to deny this, is to deny the "offer of the gospel"? or does it mean
that preaching to everyone as though they were elect, i.e.
declaring to them that Christ has died on the cross for their sins, and
that they can be forgiven? I am a bit confused here, and if I'm
completely of the track, please put me right. Thanks, RS.
Hi,
Thanks for your email and query. The "free offer of the
gospel" insists that the gospel message along with its gracious
promises are offered to every one, without any exception. The gospel
preacher is not to look out the elect (or since he does not know who
they are among the unsaved) those whom he merely thinks are elect
or who seem to show evidences that they could be among that
number, and offer Christ to them. When preaching, he must assure
every sinner that there is mercy for them if they have it. Evidently,
if they will not receive it, then God will not bestow it, but it is to
be offered to them whether they believe it or not. Some hyper
Calvinists seem to object to the use of the word "if"
in these offers, suggesting that it limits God or makes Him to be a
kind of beggar. This is not so. The first use of the word "if" in the Bible was used by God to a reprobate (Cain) telling him that if he
did what God was telling him, then it would be well with him i.e. he
would be saved. A good exercise in seeing how the gospel should be
preached is to consult any of Spurgeon's
evangelistic sermons, or any of the Calvinistic evangelists along
his line. Sometimes, while we sit twiddling with the niceties of
correct doctrinal statements, sinners are simply wanting to know, or at
least need to know, what they must do to be saved. The answer is not to
try and discern whether they are elect, but just urge them to flee to
the Christ of Calvary and trust Him. If you fail to cross a few
theological "t's" or dot a few theological "i's" along the way, I'm
pretty sure God will forgive you for your zeal, even if the hypers
don't. Colin.
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Received 14-2-06 Dear
brother in Christ, In your Calvinism: Does God love elects only? Does
He love non-elects? I get different answers from different Calvinists.
Could you help to shed some info on which view is the true Calvinism?
Thank you. God bless! Shalom, JN
Hi.
Thank you for your email. While acknowledging that some of my
Calvinistic brethren would disagree with me, I take the line that God does
have a love for the non elect as well as for His elect. This is a
benevolent love that generally ensures that the non elect have
many good things in this life (such as the the good things which the Rich man in hell enjoyed
while on earth: Luke 16:25) and for which they have much to bless God.
However, the love which God has for His elect goes much deeper and
includes the fact that they were elected unconditionally in Jesus
Christ, saw Christ making atonement for their sins of the elect
alone, covers their effectual call to faith and reception of all the
benefits that flow from salvation. I cannot see how any one , outside
of a Universalist, can say that such special love was extended to
all men, elect and non elect alike. A useful resource on
this matter is John Murray's writings on "Common Grace" Thanks again for writing. Colin.
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Received 13-2-06 Thanks for answering my questions, Colin. (11-2-06) I was particularly struck with
your comment on the unpardonable sin, so being a cantankerous sort of fellow, I
just emailed WELS seminary to answer that particular issue. Their answer to my
original question (asked via my Lutheran friend) is here: In my question today, I made use of -"Christ died for every sin of every
person, including the sin of unbelief." to ask if that included the unpardonable
sin Jesus mentions. I will send you their reply! JT Virginia
Hi,
Thanks for writing again. I had a look at the comments of the Lutherans
as linked above. I sure would love to make reply, but [i] It is a reply
to a third party and not to me [ii] I'm very
busy here at the moment. Suffice to say this...John Owen isn't denying
that men are lost through unbelief, but that Christ died for ultimate
unbelievers. I think the Lutherans (judging from this reply) see
Christ's death as only securing salvation from the guilt of sin. They fail to see that it also secured salvation from the grip of sin. Those for whom Christ died will
infallibly forsake their sins, including those of unbelief.
Like all non Calvinists, they reduce much of the work of the Cross to a
potentiality rather than an actual achievement. They would have to
admit that if it was the intention
of Christ to save all for whom He died, then He utterly failed, being
overthrown at last by sinful men. This has been nicely put as "God in
the hands of Angry Sinners" It will be interesting to see what they say
about Christ dying for the unpardonable sin. Thanks again for writing.
Colin.
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Received 13-2-06 Dear CFPC webmaster, My name is LA, and I am really glad your
website is posted on the net. Believe it or not, it was the spark God used
to get me to the Scriptures and become a Monergist.
Hi.
Thanks for writing to us here. Your email has really encouraged us. I
really do believe that the Doctrines of Grace, properly understood and
stripped of misrepresentation and misunderstanding by professing
friends and foes alike, really do conform to the Scriptures and are
glorious! I'm glad that you have come to appreciate them.
I have one question,
however. You said: "Calvinists, being without access to the Lamb's Book
of Life, see every man as potentially elect and preach the gospel to
him."
I
was going to link to the page in question, but I notice that I have
made this statement a number of times in different places. Shows I must
really believe it.
If we are to see every man as potentially elect, would it be
Biblically correct to tell him/her "Jesus died for you", since this is part
of the gospel [I Cor. 15:1-4]? If not, then, to what extent should we see
everyone as "potentially elect"?
I tend to use the phrase "Christ died for guilty sinners" and then argue that all
sinners, without exception, are invited to receive the benefits of His
work. I did a random check on Spurgeon's sermons from the Ages
CD for about 5 minutes with my search engine. He usually, but not
always, tied the comment into faith. For instance in Vol 1 p.503 "If
you acknowledge yourselves to be sinners, Christ died for you. And if
you put your trust in him, and believed that he died for you, you may
rely upon him, and say, “Lord, I will be saved by thy grace.” I
wouldn't feel that I had abandoned the Reformed Faith if I made an
unqualified statement, but I usually do (like CHS) tie it into faith. I
don't look for faith before I preach it. That would take me into the
realms of hyper Calvinism. I preach it and argue for it (in the right
sense of the word) etc., and I am content to let God apply it to the
hearts of whom He will. I wouldn't like to strangle the invitation by a
thousand qualifications.
Technically speaking, how should the
gospel be preached? I live in a country where Calvinism is vilified. 90% of
all the churches here are either
5-point Arminian or 4-point Arminian. It's
very rare to see a Fundamental Monergist around here. They all preach that
Jesus loves everybody and that He died for everybody, but we know that's not
what the Scriptures teach. Well, once again, thanks for your useful
website! In Christ, -LA www.biblicist.co.nr
Just
get on with evangelising e.g. handing out tracts etc., in the most
indiscriminate fashion you can. Don't try to keep the non elect
out, but bring the lost sheep home. I think I've used the
illustration on these pages before. When you drive a car, you just get
in, turn the key, and go. Let the mechanics and the engineers worry
about the "whys and the wherefores" Thanks again for writing.
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Received 13-2-06 Colin, I dealing with
some issues of Sinless perfection and those in that movement that say Calvinism
leads to a life of wanton sin, can you point me to some writing on
that? In
Christ,Rick, www.repentnow.us
Hi Rick, Thanks for your note again. A good book on All things Calvinism is Lorraine Boettner's "The Reformed Doctrine of Presdestination." Boettner
is easy to read. He has about 8 pages on the objection that Calvinism
is "unfavourable to good morality" If I was being challenged on
the matter, I would return the challenge by asking "How?" or "Why should it?" Our Doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints forbids it. (See: Once Saved Always Saved)
Many of the saints in Church History most noted for their
personal holiness were Calvinists e.g. Robert Murray McCheyne.
That some who professed Calvinism strayed off into wanton sin cannot be
denied, but then the Sinless Perfection movement doubtless has its
black sheep as well. Besides, the only difference between wanton sin
and hidden sin is the adjective. I have seen how some of the Sinless
Perfection folk arrive at their conclusions, namely by lowering the
standards which God has set. Thanks for writing and also for the link
on the www.repentnow.us site. Colin.
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Received 11-2-06 Dear Sir: I love your website! You have helped me immensely with my understanding of
the Reformed faith.
Thank
you for writing to us. It is always an encouragement to know that our
ministry has helped the saints of God. It takes a fair bit of time to
write some of these articles (which I enjoy immensely doing) and now
with our new site here, quite a bit of time to transfer them over from
the old site (less enjoyable, but satisfying once done) so it is nice
to know that the work is not in vain.
My good friend is a conservative Lutheran. He and I spar over our
differences. According to his understanding of Lutheran doctrine, Lutherans
believe that Christ really did fully atone for all men's sins for all time, but
that those who are lost don't receive the benefit due to unbelief. Unlike
Arminians, the Lutherans believe that belief is a gift from God alone (OK so
far). So what we have is unlimited atonement with particular redemption due to
God's grace (I think). I have peppered him with some of the same questions you
raise, but he retreats into "mystery" and "that's what scripture says."
We believe that the atonement is unlimited only in the sense that it is unlimited in its merit.
Christ would not have suffered more if the number of the elect was
increased. However, we do contend that it was limited or particular in
is intention i.e. to atone for the sins only of the elect. Although
sometimes we all use the "mystery" reply especially concerning the
Trinity or the two natures of Christ in one Person etc., yet it can
easily become an excuse. It should be plain enough that if Christ made
atonement for sins, then they can only be forgiven. The logical outcome
of Unlimited Atonement in the Arminian/Lutheran sense must be
Universalism, although thankfully, they do draw back away, even if
inconsistently, from that absurdity.
And as
always, when a Lutheran is confronted with a question as to how something fits
or is logically consistent with the rest of scripture, he will reflexively
insult the powers of logic and reason, as if Calvinism is a theology bent by
sin.
Are
the finer details of Lutheranism then unlogical and unreasonable? How
can anyone defend the reasonableness of their faith (1 Peter
3:15) or offer reasonable service unto God/ (Romans 12:2)
We have discussed John Owen's famous logic puzzle regarding the atonement,
and he even sent the puzzle to a Lutheran seminary for a response. WELS (the
seminary) said Owen's argument was silly, because unbelievers "throw away the
payment" that Christ made for their sin. I maintain that this argument is a
non-sequitir. The payer is Christ, the payment is his blood and body, and the
payee is God the Father. Man is not a party to this transaction at all, so he
can't "throw away the payment". He (man) doesn't receive the payment, but
rather the benefit of the payment. Lutherans maintain that God was fully
propitiated through Christ's death for all sins everywhere. I ask, if this is
so, then how can a sinner be punished? They say because God doesn't give them
the grace to believe. I say this is bizarre.
I agree with you. Did Christ die for the sin of throwing away the
payment? Or...did Christ die for the unpardonable sin? (This last one
usually sets them thinking!) If He did, how is it unpardonable? If he
didn't, then He didn't die for all their sins.
Could you please comment on Calvinism vs. Lutheranism in particular? Thanks, JT, Virginia
To be honest, I'm not particularly read on the Lutheran side of things. I tend just to divide any opposition to these things
into "Reformed" (as in Calvinist) and Non Reformed - as in anything
else. So I'm sorry, I can't help you there. But thanks any way for
writing. Enjoy your debates with your Lutheran friend...and keep them
civil! Colin.
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Received 11-2-06 I
have been reading quite a bit of John Piper and listening to an evening
teacher on a Christian TV site -- I've learned quite a bit about God's
sovereign power. The issue of the elect, however, is very unclear to
me. Perhaps your answer to this question will clarify some of my lack
of understanding: If a person living in a remote area of the world
lived and died without ever hearing the gospel from a teacher, friend,
missionary or any other person -- would he be saved if he were indeed
one of God's elect - "chosen in Him"? Thanks for your help and your time - God bless you!
Those who study doctrine like to use the word "ordinarily" which means that they are not prepared to pigeonhole God. Ordinarily then, those whom God has elected, will be saved through the means of hearing the gospel - whether from a teacher, missionary, friend etc., Certainly we must act upon this
principle and do all that we can, either by going ourselves or by
prayerfully and practically supporting those who do, to reach every
last tribe and people. Certainly, it would not be amiss of God to
reach the heathen without human means, nor would it be a denial of
Himself. We do not read of any missionary knocking Abraham's door,
but we do specifically read that "God...preached before the gospel unto him" (Galatians 3:8) If God steps outside the ordinary
use of means for some folk, then that's His business, but we are not to
work on that principle since it is not revealed to us in the Bible for such a purpose. If
any heathen dies without hearing the gospel from whatever means i.e.
dies unsaved, then he goes to hell for those sins which he committed
(Colossians 3:5-6) being condemned by his own conscience (Romans 2:15)
Although the very least place in hell must be a terrible experience,
yet it will be worse for those who had greater light and rejected it
(Luke 12:46-47)I trust this answer helps you. Thanks for writing. Colin.
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Received 9-2-06 I ran across your
site looking for some Spurgeon info, as a recent convert to a Calvinistic view
of the scriptures I found your site most edifying! Praise the Lord for
your stance in truth. In
Christ, Rick
Barnes, www.repentnow.us
Hi.
Thanks for your email and encouragement. Glad that our site is being
used for God's glory. I think more and more Believers will come into
the knowledge of the Doctrines of Grace, especially those who are tired
of the entertainment end of the non Reformed churches. I enjoyed
looking at your site, especially the pages with the photographs of your
street evangelism. Thanks again for writing. Colin.
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Received 8-2-06 Dear Sir, I came upon your question, "if anyone can show where Calvinism hinders the evangelism, e-mail me" Well here I am e-mailing you!
I appreciate you taking time to email me. I intend to answer your
points below and hopefully change your mind in your opposition to
Calvinism...at least on the points where you accuse us. I am sure we
can discuss these matters in a friendly manner. Just one simple
request: If you decide to reply, can you please ensure that you use
only capitals for the beginning of sentences and proper nouns etc.?
Otherwise YOU ARE SHOUTING AT ME and, if nothing else, it makes your
comments hard to read. I have altered your email in this regard for
inclusion on this page, but have not touched the content in any way.
Calvinism
has historically hindered evangelism, for fear that some one who wasn't
elect might be convinced that he was saved, so better to not
evangelize at all than to deceive some
poor soul into thinking he might be saved, since it is not necessary
with sovereign regeneration.
I
fail to see how you can make this charge stick when Church History
shows otherwise. Many of the greatest names among Christian evangelists
and missionaries were/are Calvinists. Calvin's soul winning exploits
have been well documented on this site. George Whitefield and CH
Spurgeon etc., who were notable revivalists (in the pure sense of the word)
were Calvinists etc., Well known contemporary Calvinists,
heavily into evangelism, include John Blanchard (author of Ultimate Questions)
and many others. Furthermore, Calvinists follow the Bible line
that the Lord knows those who are His (2 Timothy 2:19), that although
regeneration is the sovereign act of God, yet God regenerates people
through the preached word (1 Corinthians 1:21) and therefore we preach the word to every creature, as commanded (Mark 16:15) See "Seven reasons why Calvinists evangelise"
I do not think you can produce me any quote from any standard
Calvinist church confession or notable Calvinist who argued or even
stated that he was afraid to evangelise lest he should give false
assurance to anyone. If you can, then your next email will prove me
wrong.
I
don't know why Calvinists make a distinction between Calvinism and
hyper-Calvinism. A better term would be fundamental Calvinism (for the
hyper) and morphed Calvinism for those who don't really hold to what Calvin taught. Let me quote you from the Institutes:
"Nothing is more absurd than to think that anything at all is done but
by the ordination of God.... Every action and motion of every creature
is so governed by the hidden counsel of God, that nothing can come to
pass but what was ordained by him.. The wills of men are so governed by
the will of God, that they are carried on straight to the mark which he
has fore-ordained." (Book 1 chap 16 sect. 3)
I
have looked for the above quote, both in my hard copy of Calvin's
Institutes at 1:16:3 (Battles Translation) and also in my two CD copies
(both of Battles and Beveridge) - the latter with very effective search
engines - and I cannot find it. If you can double check your reference
or relate as to who the translator is, then I might be able to comment
further on this particular quote.
There is no room for free will
whatsoever in regular Calvinism, hence puppets on a string comments are
totally accurate in regard to what he believed. It is not a hyped up
Calvinism but the facts of what he taught. So I do not see the
distinction.
It is very strange that you should say such a thing, because the Calvinistic Westminster Confession of Faith has a whole chapter (Ch. 9) entitled "Free Will" Spurgeon himself could say, Ay, we believe that God has given to man a free-will — that we do not deny... (New Park Gate Pulpit Vol 6 p. 244) The
issue swings on what is meant by free will. Calvinists rightly believe
that sinceJohn Calvin was a pious, learned, sensible man; man is in bondage to sin (John 8:34) therefore his
will is likewise in bondage. You can't have a will in bondage and free
at the same time. We believe in free will in the sense that man is free
to follow the dictates of his enslaved will and whatever he does, he
does freely. Therefore although Christ was crucified according to the
pre-determined plan of God, those pre-ordained hands that took him are
still considered to be wicked, for what they did, they did freely. (Acts
2:23) Hyper Calvinists do not believe in the responsibility of men to
repent etc., whereas Calvin and true Calvinists do, hence the
distinction. I'm afraid that if you fail to recognise the very big
differences, then you are not going to get very far in any debate on
the matter. The differences are there and they are real.
If
I were a Calvinist I would not evangelize, I'd have better things to do
like feed the poor, cloth the poor , earn rewards in heaven, oh, but we
don't
get rewards according to Calvin, so I'd just do nothing, except live my
life to the fullest for me and my friends, there is no incentive to preach the gospel, it really is unnecessary. I don't waste my time on things that aren't necessary, others might but I do not.
I
notice that you fail to give any reference for this charge against
Calvin and I must ask you either to do so or to retract your charge.
Just to show that I am willing to research this matter for the sake of
accuracy (which is a God honouring way to conduct any debate) I looked
up Calvin on Colossians 3:24 where Paul spoke of the believer being
rewarded. Calvin comments: "Here,
truly, is choice consolation for all that are under subjection,
inasmuch as they are informed that, while they willingly serve their
masters, their services are acceptable to Christ, as though they had
been rendered to him. From this, also, Paul gathers, that they will receive from him a reward, but it is the reward of inheritance, by which he means that the very thing that is bestowed in reward of works is freely given to us by God, for inheritance comes from adoption." Or again on Hebrews 11:26 where Moses had respect unto the recompense of reward, Calvin writes: "Then faith, as to righteousness before God, does not look on reward,
but on the gratuitous goodness of God, not on our works but on Christ
alone; but faith, apart from justification, since it extends generally
to every word of God, has respect to the reward that is promised; yea,
by faith we embrace whatever God promises: but he promises reward to
works; then faith lays hold on this." I
really don't know where you are coming from here on this one, and I am
pretty sure that you cannot up your charges. As for evangelism,
as before, I refer you to our page: "Seven reasons why Calvinists evangelise"
I wouldn't pray much either, I
wouldn't have a need for God to do anything special for me, it isn't
going to change his sovereign plan anyway so why waste my time? Again,
some might take the time but I wouldn't, I am a practical person. If
the job is done, why would I try to interfere? Does that seem strange
thinking to you?
Yes,
it is a very strange way of thinking indeed. I think you fail to see
that Calvinists believe that God not only ordains the means, but the
end to achieving those means. Therefore he ordains that His elect will
be brought into the fold through evangelism and so we evangelism. Even
though He knows what we have need of before we ask (Matthew 6:8) He
still would have us ask, nevertheless (v11) He works through
means. In his classic book "Power through prayer"
E.M. Bounds (a non Calvinist) gives quotations from great prayer
warriors - the majority of which adhered to the Calvinistic faith.
I actually know a whole church full of
people like this, reformed of course, self indulgent to the max, and
very convinced that their every move is
ordained by God. I have never heard of
one person getting saved there. They just replicate the same self
indulgent sort of people.So there is my answer on how Calvinism
hinders evangelism. Truly yours, JJT
This
might be so, but you cannot take a particular group of people, found in
a particular location during a particular period of time, and use them
to brand all who hold to the Doctrines of Grace. It is a very small
point to make, when there are thousands of Calvinistic churches who are
fully committed to evangelism etc., Even Mr Cloud in the article
where I invited these emails acknowledges that there are Calvinists who
are busily engaged in evangelism. He gives contemporary examples.
You fail to do so, but rather light on one example, and worse still,
refuse to let us put any ground between us and them because (according
to you) there is no such difference to be made. I must leave it
there. Feel free to come back on these issues, although I must request
that you give references (and accurate ones at that) for your comments.
Thanks again for writing. Colin.
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Received 21-1-06 [NOTE:
I sent David Cloud, by email, a copy of my latest answer to his charges
against Calvinism. My subject heading was: ARE YOU SURE MR CLOUD? If
you check this page, I ask Mr Cloud to substantiate just who the
Calvinists are who believe that men are damned solely because they are
not elect. I received the following reply the very same day:]
Yes, I am 100% sure that Calvinism is not Scripture. And infant baptism is an abomination.
Thank
you Mr Cloud for your reply to my email, although I note that you
avoided giving any proof of your original claims. I can only assume
that not only do your original claims not stand the test of a courteous
examination, but that you are painfully aware of this also. I fail to
see what the matter of infant baptism has to do with my original email,
but then my original email queried what Calvinism had to do with a RC
priest's thoughts on Judas Iscariot. If this kind of reply to a
courteous letter brings you some crumb of satisfaction, then you are
entirely welcome to it. Be assured if you find something on my site
which you feel must be challenged, then I will deal with your challenge
in a way that is not designed to be hurtful or rude. Colin.
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Received 20-1-06 Dear Pastor Maxwell,
Thank you for your carefully considered and thought-provoking response
to Mark Huss. My name is JT. I have just started an Mdiv at the
Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. I am writing a paper called
"Predestination for the Glory of God" for Prof. Paul Helm. In
considering this issue from a pastoral perspective, I am writing my
paper using the scholastic approach, examining individual objections in
turn. I came across a quote on another "Fundamental Baptist" Website
critiquing Calvinist doctrine. I have spent a fair bit of time trying
to find the quotes to which they were referring, but to no avail.
Admittedly, I have found the process somewhat frustrating but was
encouraged to see that I was not the only one unable to find the
references. I have requested information regarding their referencing,
but was wondering whether you have had any response from Mark Huss.
Were you able to find the references that were quoted in the end? The
specific quotes were: "The reprobate
like the elect are appointed to be so by the secret counsel of God's
will and by nothing else" (Calvin's Institutes II, xxii, Page 11). And
nothing in them could transfer them to the contrary class, any more
than anything in the elect could result in their becoming reprobate..."
(Calvin's Institute III, iii, page 4). Thank you for your time, JT
Hi.
Thanks for your email. Glad that you have found the above article
answering Mr Huss to be helpful. I think it was one of the worse
attacks I have ever seen on the Doctrines of Grace. I did hear from him
eventually, but he just thanked me for my comments and that was about
it. I'm sorry but I never did manage to trace the above quotes in the
end. Mr Huss never offered to clarify them. The first quote would seem
to contradict another quote which can be sourced: "Accordingly, we
should contemplate the evident cause of condemnation in the corrupt
nature of humanity - which is closer to us - than seek a hidden and
utterly incomprehensible cause in God's predestination." (Institutes
3:23:8) I noticed the other Website before, with its teaching of God's
limited sovereignty. I suppose it is the logical outcome of its man
centered doctrine. Thanks again for writing. Sorry I can't be of more
help to you. I trust your paper goes well. Colin.
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Received 18-1-06 Thank you for
creating the Website on Calvinism. It is an excellent resource to learn
about Calvinism. May God bless you in your work. Sincerely, PM.
Glad that you have found the site so helpful. Thanks for your comments. Colin.
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Received 4-1-06 Colin, I hope you are
doing well. I found you this weekend on the internet and am very
pleased I did. I guess you can say I have been studying the subject of
Grace for the past year or so. I have read so many book on Election,
Regeneration, Justification that I can get my hands on. Most have been
by Arthur Pink which I really enjoy reading.
Nice
to hear from you and to know that this site has been of blessing to
you. Pink is usually good. I was listening recently to a non Calvinist
preacher who described him as "one of the greatest of all the
commentators"
But it seems to me that most of these
theologians are A-millennial thinkers and I differ from that being a
Premillenial thinker. My question to you is where do you stand on this
debate? Can you be a reformer and premillenialist? Thanks CS.
While
most of the actual Reformers were A-millennial in their eschatology,
many of the Puritans were actually Post Millennial in theirs. There are
not a few men who were Pre Millennial and Calvinistic, most notably the
Bonar Brothers and also Robert Murray McCheyne in Scotland. CH Spurgeon
once signed a Confession of Faith that was Pre Millennial. His position
is discussed here in great depth. The Sovereign Grace Advent Testimony
takes the Calvinistic and Pre Millennial line. Many of our ministers in
the Free Presbyterian Church are both Calvinistic and Pre
Millennialist. These men would be classic Pre Millenialists i.e. non
Dispensational and would place the Great Tribulation before the events
in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 I can't see how taking a position other than
the A-millennial position endangers any of the essential points of
Calvinism. The important thing is to have your prophetic views in line
with the Scriptures…not necessarily the Reformers or anyone
else! My own prophetic views are far from settled. I tend to keep my
brush sweeps pretty broad, although I am pretty definite in my view
that the Church will go through the Tribulation. (This comes from my
more settled doctrine of the Church.) Trust this helps. Thanks again
for writing. Colin.
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