debatepope

Cork Free Presbyterian Church, 10 Briarscourt (Annex) Shanakiel, Cork, Ireland
Pastor: Colin Maxwell. Email: colin.maxwell@fpcmission.org

This debate, which was privately organised, followed on from a debate last year sponsored by the University College of Cork Philosophical Society. Reports of last year's debate may be viewed here. This was a debate among friends and this was reflected in the overall atmosphere of the debate where the truth was spoken in love. We were disappointed by the attendance which was low, but nevertheless the truth of God was proclaimed . Each speaker had 15 minutes to make his opening remarks, then there were questions/comments from the floor, and then there was a period of 5-7 minutes for each speaker to make his closing remarks. A show of hands was marginally in favour of the motion. This was followed by some refreshments afterwards, thanks to the generosity and kindness of the chairman, Mick Young,* who also kept things moving along nicely during the debate. This gave us an opportunity to chat some of the folk afterwards and explain further our position and answer their questions. One lady who turned up after the event was somewhat irate at the matter being debated at all. Nevertheless a work was done that may yet bear forth some fruit to the glory of God.

Quality Hotel where debate was held. Highly recommended	Advertising card printed and distributed inviting people to the debate	Colin Maxwell enjoys a relaxing chat with the chairman before the debate
View of the disappointingly small crowd	Micheál Ó Fearghail making his contribution to the debate	Colin Maxwell making his contribution to the debate

Outline of Colin Maxwell's Opening Statement

1) THERE IS NO POPE MENTIONED IN THE 27 BOOKS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT:

Deal with Matthew 16:13-18
Deal with John 21:15-23

Christ Himself is the Head of the body which is the Church (Colossians 1:18)

No Office of the Pope mentioned in key verse in Ephesians 4:11

Even if Peter was exalted higher than the other apostles - still a huge quantum leap to the Papacy

2) THERE WAS NO POPE FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS AFTER THE APOSTLES:

Why there is some disagreement as to when the Papacy actually begun

Church Fathers have been far from unanimous as to this matter

Quote Augustine (Retractions) where he says that the Rock in Matthew 16:18 is Christ
Quote Cyprian (Unity of the Church) who said that the Apostles all had equal power

Deal with the objection that Peter is sometimes mentioned singularly in various quotations
Answer: Peter (as much by personality as anything else) became the face/spokesman of the Apostles
I might say "Calvin" or "Luther" but mean all the Reformers in general
Or: I might say "Ferguson will not retain the Premiership next year" when I mean the whole Man Utd team/club

3) THE POPE PLAYS NO USEFUL ROLE IN THE CHURCH:

Idea looks good, but we cannot be wiser than God

Controversies within Rome haven't been sorted out after hundreds of years
Some are pretty humorous: Quid comedit mus? (What eateth the mouse?)
Some not so humorous: Is Mary a Mediatrix?
(2,000 years on and Rome still has not decided)

Society of Pius X have a question box on their website where the question is asked:
Why is there so little unity among traditional groups

Deal with the idea of Papal Infallibility:
How many infallible statements has the Pope made?
Controversy/confusion over this matter in Rome as admitted on apologetic sites

Supreme teacher of the Church is the Holy Spirit Himself: John 16:13

Yes, there are still many controversies, but that's the way that God ordained it to be: 1 Corinthians 11:19
Perplexing matters are there to send us running to the Bible (Acts 17:11)

4) THE SO CALLED LINE OF POPES BACK TO PETER IS A MYTH:

Rome's official list has been revised and changed
1947 saw no less than 6 Popes dropped from the list
Pope Donus II made Pope in 973 AD was judged to have never existed!
Sainthood was removed from 4 Popes

In 1412, John XXIII was deposed from being Pope during the Great Schism
A John XXIII oversaw the Vatican II ... hence there were two John XXIII's!

No Benedict X (later declared to have been an Antipope)

Sham!

Even if Rome could prove a direct line back, yet it would prove nothing spiritual:
John 9:28/John 5:43

5) HERETICAL POPES - EVEN BY ROME'S OWN STANDARDS:

Two Examples:

[i] Honorous (625-638) condemned by the 3 Ecumenical Councils for his Monolethic heresy
Catholic Encyclopedia: No Catholic has the right to defend Honorous

"Anathema to the heretic Sergius...Cyrus...to the heretic Honorous..."
(Bishops at the end of the 6th Ecumenical Council)

[ii] Pope John Paul II (1978-2005)

Society of Pius X accuses him of preaching:
"a new religion, a humanism, a gospel of the intrinsic goodness of men..."
Site itself quotes Matthew 7:15 about false prophets
I quote Galatians 1:8-9

6) MANY POPES HAVE LED DEBAUCHED LIVES:

Name various Popes and give damning quotes from the Catholic Encyclopedia

These men have not been defrocked by the RC Church
Requirements of a "mere" elder in the NT was very strict (1 Timothy 3)

7) PROTESTANTS HAVE GOT ON VERY WELL WITHOUT A POPE FOR 500 YEARS AND ARE STILL GOING STRONG:

Ignore the idea that Rome is united while Protestantism is fragmented

Protestants share much in agreement while differing only in secondary matters

Common faith:

Doctrines of salvation
Cross denominational use of Bible Commentaries
Hymnbooks
Denominational Bible Conferences with speakers from other denominations
Inter denominational Bible Conferences
Interdenominational Bible Colleges
Interdenominational missionary Societies and para church organisations
Apogetical including theological works

Protestant Churches are still going strong and growing
Making inroads in traditional RC Countries like Brazil etc.,

8) THE POPE IS A CHALLENGER TO THE CLAIMS OF JESUS CHRIST AND THEREFORE IS AN ANTICHRIST:

All the major Protestant authorities (WCF etc.,) claim this

[i] Pope claims to be the Holy Father - yet; John 17:11
[ii] Pope claims to be another Christ on earth and Head of the Church: Colossians 1:18
[iii] Pope claims to be the Vicar of Christ - this is the work of the Holy Spirit: John14:16/15;26/16:13)

9) CONCLUSION:

Not trying to make anyone a Protestant
No Church can save

Why I entered the lists: To unblock the road to salvation
Christ unhampered by church tradition

Peter said of Christ: Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (AV)

* I want to return a favour here. Mick Young edits the Glanmire Area News which is a free advertising paper in the Mayfield, Upper Glanmire, Watergrasshill, Glouthaune, Little Island and Knockraha areas of County Cork. If you wish to advertise in his 40 page newspaper, you can telephone him on 086 8294713 or email details to: news@graphicprism.ie

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